a.s.
Valinor
Thanks for visiting this short but intense chapter with me. I hope you'll have time to visit the previous threads, if you haven't already. Thanks to everyone who answered or commented.
I thought I'd try to answer a few of my own questions and then open the floor for any comments or ruminations on any part of the text not already covered or a point not yet raised, etc.
Why does Tolkien include a Crossroads here? What function does it serve in the story?
I'm sure there are numerous reasons for having a literal Cross-roads in the story, but it also seems to function as a metaphorical cross-roads as well. This is the last turning back point for Frodo, the last place he can decide to not enter Mordor. Although he seems really bent on making it to Mt. Doom and shows no inclination to turn back, yet this could be the moment to do that.
Why a Crossroads on this date in the unfolding story?
As others have already mentioned, this is The Dawnless Day, and Sauron has also reached a cross-roads of his own, metaphorically speaking, and has chosen his path and is now proceeding down it. At the same time our other heroes are also taking decisive steps today: this is the day that Rohan musters and the Riders leave for Minis Tirith.
Do we see any other crossroads--literal or metaphorical--in LOTR? What happens there?
I was thinking of Bree, and the fact that we have a crownless King appear there, as well. Not headless, though. So we had a crownless king who had his head on his shoulders in Bree, and at the Cross-roads we have a headless king who had his crown on the fallen head. That signifies...something.
[cool]
But whatever it signifies, I think it's related to the verse about "crownless again shall be king".
There is much to compare (and contrast) here, of course, with Lorien. Thoughts?
Well, in Lorien the hobbits felt they were inside a dream, and now that they have left Faramir's camp they feel that a dream has passed, making Ithilien (at least the part in the Ranger's company) a dream as well as Lorien. They find help unlooked for and receive counsel and gifts and food in both places.
Are Frodo and Sam going to find any more "friends unlooked for" from this point on?
I don't think so. I think they are out of "friends unlooked for" and on their own now.
Where have we read a similar passage?
Not quite the same, because it's by the water, but the roots twisting like snakes here on a steep bank remind me strongly of the roots like "dragonets" on the steep bank in the Old Forest.
And that passage; does that remind you of any other in LOTR?
It reminds me of both the dream Frodo has of Gandalf in Orthanc (when he is in the House of Tome Bombadil) and the dream he had earlier, at Crickhollow, when he dreamed of the tower and the sea.
Sometimes the things Gollum says really interest me. Speculate where Gollum learned to use the phrase “beautiful sleep”.
Again, a choice of words that rather surprises me from Gollum: where did Gollum learn to use little endearments like "sleepies"? When you read this kind of phrase from Gollum, does it change your perspective on the old evil thing at all?
These seem to be ancient endearments such as a mother or grandmother would use to lull a little one to sleep or greet them in the morning or after a nap. They don't seem to be phrases that Gollum would have picked up in the dark, under the Mountain, or in his wanderings since he left to look for Baggins.
Sometimes I almost get to feeling sorry for the nasty old thing.
Contrast Frodo and Sam and their attitudes toward the next stage of their journey.
Frodo has begun to admit he doesn't think he will finish the journey to Mt. Doom ("I'm afraid our journey is drawing to an end") but Sam hasn't yet begun to give up hope.
Do you agree with squire's placement of the statue? Why or why not?
No, I don't agree. I think the statue is dead center, in the middle of the intersection of the two roads. Literally "in" the Cross-roads. I'm not sure I can defend my reasoning, except that being dead center seems to fit the description in the text and seems the most logical place for a statue in honor of a king, so it can be seen from all sides on approach.
Thoughts on what Tolkien is trying to convey in this little moment here? The importance in the story?
It's a little illustration of one of Tolkien's central themes: evil cannot conquer forever. Good will always re-arise. It's LOTR writ small.
[heart]
a.s.
I thought I'd try to answer a few of my own questions and then open the floor for any comments or ruminations on any part of the text not already covered or a point not yet raised, etc.
Why does Tolkien include a Crossroads here? What function does it serve in the story?
I'm sure there are numerous reasons for having a literal Cross-roads in the story, but it also seems to function as a metaphorical cross-roads as well. This is the last turning back point for Frodo, the last place he can decide to not enter Mordor. Although he seems really bent on making it to Mt. Doom and shows no inclination to turn back, yet this could be the moment to do that.
Why a Crossroads on this date in the unfolding story?
As others have already mentioned, this is The Dawnless Day, and Sauron has also reached a cross-roads of his own, metaphorically speaking, and has chosen his path and is now proceeding down it. At the same time our other heroes are also taking decisive steps today: this is the day that Rohan musters and the Riders leave for Minis Tirith.
Do we see any other crossroads--literal or metaphorical--in LOTR? What happens there?
I was thinking of Bree, and the fact that we have a crownless King appear there, as well. Not headless, though. So we had a crownless king who had his head on his shoulders in Bree, and at the Cross-roads we have a headless king who had his crown on the fallen head. That signifies...something.
[cool]
But whatever it signifies, I think it's related to the verse about "crownless again shall be king".
There is much to compare (and contrast) here, of course, with Lorien. Thoughts?
Well, in Lorien the hobbits felt they were inside a dream, and now that they have left Faramir's camp they feel that a dream has passed, making Ithilien (at least the part in the Ranger's company) a dream as well as Lorien. They find help unlooked for and receive counsel and gifts and food in both places.
Are Frodo and Sam going to find any more "friends unlooked for" from this point on?
I don't think so. I think they are out of "friends unlooked for" and on their own now.
Where have we read a similar passage?
Not quite the same, because it's by the water, but the roots twisting like snakes here on a steep bank remind me strongly of the roots like "dragonets" on the steep bank in the Old Forest.
And that passage; does that remind you of any other in LOTR?
It reminds me of both the dream Frodo has of Gandalf in Orthanc (when he is in the House of Tome Bombadil) and the dream he had earlier, at Crickhollow, when he dreamed of the tower and the sea.
Sometimes the things Gollum says really interest me. Speculate where Gollum learned to use the phrase “beautiful sleep”.
Again, a choice of words that rather surprises me from Gollum: where did Gollum learn to use little endearments like "sleepies"? When you read this kind of phrase from Gollum, does it change your perspective on the old evil thing at all?
These seem to be ancient endearments such as a mother or grandmother would use to lull a little one to sleep or greet them in the morning or after a nap. They don't seem to be phrases that Gollum would have picked up in the dark, under the Mountain, or in his wanderings since he left to look for Baggins.
Sometimes I almost get to feeling sorry for the nasty old thing.
Contrast Frodo and Sam and their attitudes toward the next stage of their journey.
Frodo has begun to admit he doesn't think he will finish the journey to Mt. Doom ("I'm afraid our journey is drawing to an end") but Sam hasn't yet begun to give up hope.
Do you agree with squire's placement of the statue? Why or why not?
No, I don't agree. I think the statue is dead center, in the middle of the intersection of the two roads. Literally "in" the Cross-roads. I'm not sure I can defend my reasoning, except that being dead center seems to fit the description in the text and seems the most logical place for a statue in honor of a king, so it can be seen from all sides on approach.
Thoughts on what Tolkien is trying to convey in this little moment here? The importance in the story?
It's a little illustration of one of Tolkien's central themes: evil cannot conquer forever. Good will always re-arise. It's LOTR writ small.
[heart]
a.s.
