History repeating itself

K

kbdiggity

Rivendell
I've been frequenting ToRN for more than a decade, as it was the best place I could find to learn about some little film being shot in New Zealand based on some books I had read. So I was around a decade ago to read through the various messageboard threads when the movies were released. It struck me as particularly ironic to read a post today lamenting Peter Jackson's work on the Hobbit movies and how they have given people a better appreciation for how great the LoTR films are.

The reason it is so ironic is because I remember how upset the ToRN boards got at the flaws they found upon first viewing the three LoTR movies... but apparently the people upset at AUJ and the DoS trailer do not remember.

"I hate how they portrayed Frodo"

"What is this Arwen warrior princess crap"

'Too much Legolas shield surfing"

"Denethor is terrible"

"They wasted Faramir's character"

"They destroyed Gimli by making him comic relief"

"The Paths of the Dead look like scrubbing bubbles ghosts"

"Why are there elves at Helm's Deep?!"

"Why are Elrond and Galadriel mind-chatting from a great distance?"

"Check out the bad CGI in this scene with Legolas or that battle scene"

"I can't believe they just left Saruman in his tower"

"The Hobbit stand-ins are way too noticeable in this scene and that scene"

blah, blah, blah... and on it went. As each of the films were released the hardcore fans that frequented ToRN commiserated and blasted the things in those movies that upset them. Now history is simply repeating itself on the ToRN boards. Perhaps there are a bunch of newer posters who simply weren't here for the first go around. But as someone who was, I can't help but marvel at the similarities separated by a decade.
 
Part of the pattern you're talking about is this: as soon as the next one comes out and people have new changes to worry about, the previous one looks better by comparison. I always figured it's just because changes take a lot of time to get used to and so we adjust to them and find our equilibrium just in time to get upset about new ones. Plus, it's just in the nature of fandom. People who are passionately interested in the details of something are always also passionate about any changes in those details. The trick is to remember that it's all supposed to be fun and we're all here because fundamentally we enjoy the topic and not to take the annoyances and worries out on each other. [:)]
 
coming to torn since 2001, over ten years, I met my wife at the Return of the One Party in 2004 and you are right. Some posters on here are pretty much saying the same things now as they were saying about the LotR films when they were in production and being released. The complaining over the most trivial of things associated with these movies is rather tedious and is one of the many reasons why I don't post as often on the message boards. People moaning about the CGI, Legolas' eyes, PJ doesn't respect Tolkien's work, Azog being an idiot.......etc etc.

The same things were being said back then and now those movies are considered masterpieces. For Azog read Lurtz, for PJ not respecting Tolkien's work read Tom Bombadil or the Scouring of the Shire, for CGI read Legolas shield surfing or his attack on the Mumakil. I could go on and on, the negativity exhibited on these boards over the past few months is truly history repeating itself.
 
I am fairly new to the forum here (about a month). I enjoyed the LOTR films a lot when they were released, and I still enjoy them. I came to the forum because I was feeling disillusioned with The Hobbit movies and I wanted to see what others thought after spending a considerable amount of time on the Hobbit subreddit (not the best place to try to start a conversation if you didn't enjoy the film, you will be covered in downvotes and you will be either ignored or mocked). So I came here to find people who had similar problems with the film, to maybe find a way to come to terms with what we are dealing with. So there are people here who are fairly new, who weren't here complaining about LOTR ten years ago, and who probably wouldn't have been, and I am one of them. Just wanted to put a face and a voice to one of the newer users.
 
As I said in the other thread, I can't speak for others - but I LOVED the LotR films from the very beginning. I came out of FotR convinced I'd seen the very best film I'd ever experienced (and still feel that way).

This is not an instance of me forgetting anything. AUJ just let me down, period.

Again, I want to stress that I have come to enjoy the film on it's own terms - but it's no LotR. That is not me forgetting anything - it's objective criticism.

But if you guys were actually complaining that much about LotR when it came out (!), maybe it's a blessing I wasn't on the boards yet. [tongue]
 
Now, as then, we see characters butchered, storylines changed to worse version, etc etc. Thankfully we'll always have the books. Them and the movies are different and I've gone used to it. I know Denethor's dignity and tragedy, I know about Thror's foolish entry into Moria, about Thrain's despair and the war that followed. And I see the action-packed movies without worry, kids love zombie armies and lady-elf warriors.
 
But 215,000 posts in the Hobbit section vs. 40,000 for the LOTR section. Heck, I hardly knew what a 'puter was back in 2001. [laugh]
 
Nevertheless, I took issue with about 80% of what you represented in the list of complaints. It is possible for both love and critique to exist in the same mind.
 
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You can instantly sense the type of post someone is about to make from the topic or first sentence. We have all given our opinions on what we like and don't like already in a hundred different threads so we I read them nowadays I roll my eyes and think to myself "yeah we get it".

The Hobbit does not have as many changes as LOTR. I am halfway through the Two Towers and it is totally different. I actually appreciate the movie's changes more and it gives me a good way to interpret the changes in the Hobbit movies. Crying about it will only ruin the only movies I might ever get in my life.
 
When I first saw FotR I was completely blown away by it, that was my first introduction to Tolkien and I wanted to know more, I can still remember after walking out of the cinema asking my Father numerous questions about they story and I've been hooked ever since. It's a good job you weren't around back then because if I remember correctly the major complaints about FotR were:

1) It was nothing like the book
2) Frodo was too young
3) No Tom Bombadil or Barrow Downs
4) Aragorn is too indecisive and didn't get Narsil
5) The Black Riders weren't scary enough
6) Frodo was a wimp on Weathertop
7) Time between the ring being discovered and Frodo leaving was too short
8) Gimli was a buffoon
9) Council of Elrond was too short
10) Galadriel's nuclear explosion
11) Saruman's depiction of breeding an army
12) Lurtz wasn't in the book
13) Staircase scene in Moria
14) The whole cave troll scene in the Chamber of Mazarbul
15) Lothlorien was too blue
16) Isengard (Orthanc) had no buildings around it
17) No warg attack between Rivendell and Moria
18) Saruman casting a spell on Caradhras
19) The film ending on Boromir's death, where it should have been at the start of the Two Towers
20) Frodo not seeing all the lands around him while on Amon Hen
21) Glorfindel not even mentioned and doesn't rescue Frodo
22) Frodo not riding the horse, Arwen gets involved

Heck I could go on and on......but you get the picture ;)
 
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Yeah, that would have driven me away promptly. [crazy] I consider FotR the best film adaptation I've ever seen, and was blown away by it when I saw it. The words on my lips coming out of the cinema were "Perfect. Absolutely perfect."
 
There are no where near as many changes from the books with AUJ compared with the number of changes we had for each of the LotR movies. The changes are going to happen whether we like it or not because PJ and co have to bring these stories to life in a movie format and more importantly these movies have to appeal to the masses not just us book fans. For example, one change I didn't agree with PJ initially back on FotR was Aragorn's character. However hearing his and Boyens reasoning behind the change made me think yeah that makes more sense from a movie perspective and doing it like in the book wouldn't be as effective. There were many other occasions like this where I thought, yes the film makers got that right and not followed the book.

As one of Torn's regulars on the message boards would say (Gramma) Trust in PJ. [;)]
 
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and I do feel even though I'm a great admirer of Tolkien's work that PJ himself doesn't get enough credit for what he did from some people, particularly the purists. Remember back in 1998, PJ and his crew took a HUGE gamble on making these movies, absolutely huge, fortunately New Line had the balls to finance the movies and they trusted PJ to pull it off. Back then PJ wasn't really well known as a Director but his sheer will and determination and trust in his cast and crew got him through it. That's why I probably give him the benefit of the doubt on these Hobbit movies because lets be honest he really earned it.
 
i can severely criticize the lotr films and i am more than aware of their flaws and certainly do not think they are faithfull adaptations of the books nor that they are all that they could be, particularly the last two...And still appreciate them much, much more than these recent action movies called TH.

For many, AUJ is simply forgettable. You know, incompetent writing and diretcing , bla bla bla...

More of a tragedy really...
 
they are doing the same work they did with LOTR.

Praising LOTR trilogy and bashing The Hobbit is absurd.

Honestly I am more satisfied with The Hobbit than how I was with LOTR trilogy

Why? Well, I can say one thing:

Because The Hobbit book is very opened to interpretations, LOTR books not.
 
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