FOTR EE Appendices Discussion ~~Designing Middle-earth~~CONCLUSION!

H

hobbitlove

Gondor
At Last! [tongue]
Welcome to the Concluding post of the FOTR EE Appendices ~~ Designing Middle-earth ~~

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Well, what do you think about the design of the films???

Over-designed?

Waste of money?

Are these over-designed movies? Are they egregious examples of a foolish waste of time and money?[evil][shocked][tongue][:)]

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Kristin Thompson says on page 86 of her book, The Frodo Franchise, "Probably the film's careful, imaginative design, more than anything else, won over fans and made them more willing to excuse the changes in the plot."


Is that true of us here on the movie boards, do you think?



A few thoughts as we conclude this series:
The Appendices of FOTR EE are carefully made so as not to reveal anything (of importance) from the then as yet two unreleased films, though certainly they could have; the clips cover what seem like every single detail of creating the films. This is perfect for a geek, of course.
Each segment of interviews and clips is accompanied by the 'appropriate' music: the music heard in that part of the film being discussed. Besides being reminiscent, the music is as much a part of the design of the films as is the look of the films.

Well designed appendices, or more of what some might want to call over-design?

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Is this PR, glossing-over their mistakes, and tooting their own horns?


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Richard Taylor has said that they absolutely did not want to design a fantasy film that 'winked' at the audience. Sort of like they did not want to ask the audience to 'suspend disbelief', but rather (and this is a large distinction) to find these films to be completely believable.
The design process was meant to make the movies feel real, familiar (40 years of Tolkien art), and to help tell the story.

Did the design of The Lord of the Rings do those things?



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It is more than clear (to us at least) that one of the most important, and perhaps most fortunate (for Tolkien fans) decisions Peter Jackson ever made was to ask Alan Lee and John Howe to join the design team for his movies.

And, it seems that Peter Jackson's insistence upon 'vetting' every aspect of the design of the movies, along with the obviously tremendous influence of Alan Lee (most of all) and John Howe, helped to create a unity of design. As John Howe says, the designers of The Lord of the Rings "Had to put a bit of thought into it" -- into everything they did -- in order to "get things right."

For you, movie fan, again, may we ask if you think their efforts paid off? Did they get things right?



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We know how we feel, the hubby and I, and the Oscars say something (especially within the industry), but, when it comes right down to it, we all decide for ourselves what we must think of these crazy, wonderful people who shared a 'once in a lifetime experience and loved every minute of it!



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[mad]One thing is certain, we geeks (and by that I mean me,[unimpressed] hobbitlove) over-designed these discussions. LOL! [blush] But boy, oh boy! What would you leave out when everything is so interesting and so well told?

[:)]Just thanks a million for letting us do this and being here to share some of it with us!

Finally! Fini!


Blessings to all who journey,

hobbitlove and ordinaryhobbit
 
I don't think they over designed at all.

I saw the movies before I read the books, so I can't say if they did it like I imagined it, but I CAN say that the extreme detail helped me become immersed in the world rather than be fully aware of my watching a film. The detail adds so much richness to the story. And personally I think they needed to have that much detail, because when reading the books Tolkien always had time to pause and explain in detail so many things, like the location, important items, buildings, etc. And when the movie stops to show epic wide shots of locations and such it really shows how much Tolkien did in imagining and writing these.

But I'm rambling at this point, haha [blush]
 
I've really enjoyed your posts and will miss you now the journey is over!

While a lot of time, effort and money was spent on the design of the film, it certainly paid off. Before the movie I had my own vision of what Middle Earth looked like and the characters in the books. Now I can't even remember what that was! PJ's look has taken over my mind and I have no regrets whatsoever.

As a New Zealander I was so proud that PJ did such a good job. I remember waiting and wondering what it would be like and hoping we'd all like it if not love it. I'm feeling so much more confident this time round as we wait for TH.

Once again thank you both!
 
I cant imagine that it wasn't Middle-Earth as Tolkien told it - and that keeps coming to mind, that this wasn't a bit of self indulgence, it was to ensure that the story was as accurate as it could be visually - and to me, on seeing this first part of the trilogy - I was blown away and in tears most of the time LOL!!

You two have gone beyond the call - these discussions were fantastic and so well put together - they are brilliant.
I just wanted to say thankyou so much!
They have been a real pleasure to read and respond to.
You are both honourable tornsibs to the max! [cool]

Thankyou for taking us on this special journey.
Cheers
Elven x
 
Thank you for taking us through the appendices. I think the time they spent on the props and design where so important in creating the Tolkien world.By keeping the production local, they kept control over all of it and every time I watch the films and see something I missed .There is just so much to see, and of course the movie and music are great at breaking your attention from the background. Great job all around.[;)] Thank you.
 
Don't dare to call the movie overdesigned! [:P] I loved every tiny little bit of it, and for me it is true what Kristin said; I might have grumbled about some changes in the plot, but the huge effort and love they put into design made more than up for that. The first two or three times I watched mainly for the story, then I concentrated more on the background, and that was such a joy to do!

And the same goes for your own posts. I enjoyed ever little detail of them - thank you so much for all the work you put into them! Even more so as I know you don't have that much spare time on your hands.

Is this PR, glossing-over their mistakes, and tooting their own horns?
To me it rather seemed that they were excited to let others share the wonderful experience of design all these treasures. And if they are tooting their own horns, it's for something that deserves praise anyway.
I'm not sure how much other making-ofs are going into that sort of detail, how unique this part of the appendices is, but not matter the circumstances, I am very glad they gave the design team their due and made it possible for them to share a bit of the limelight. They really deserved to be acknowledged for all they did.
 
...that's likely the way I could have replied in 10 posts in response to "Designing Middle-earth"... so I will reduce that to one.
I am a movie-firster and usually look at that fact as a gift (with a little bit of wishing that I had *known* Tolkien longer --but mostly glad I was able to see the films with no expectation/comparisons involved!) I am happy to be able to appreciate the films and the book equally.
That said...on to *wow* and *awesome*-land:
The issue history and authenticity-yes! this was very appealing. I've seen my share of historically-based films and appreciate film makers' attempts to make things (sets, costumes, props and so on) look *for real*.
Then Hollywood style fantasy: I've also seen enough fantasy films to recognize what I view as elements of fantasy (that shimmery/glowing lighting, the *pop* of colors and the like). Somehow, PJ and Crew were able to make *Something Else*---not really history (but it could have been!) and not just fantasy.
The interviews...I think I enjoy these most of all...whatever role the person involved had in the 'making of...'. Having done a bit (thankfully just a bit) of work-related PR, I get how much easier it is to speak with passion about something one believes in as opposed to *making a sell*. Although I do believe there was some *sell* involved here (it is a business, afterall)...it was so not needed. I mean to say--that's not what led me to purchase the EEs.
Oh the places we'll see...
Hobbiton --a blast of green to shock the eyes... wonderful;
Bag-end--rich woods--comfy;
Bree--gloomy;
Weathertop--exposed;
Isengard--hmmm...I'll get back to this one...;
Rivendell--breath taking;
Moria--imposing;
Lothlorien--...lost my breath, again;
the Anduin, Argonath, and Amon Hen--powerful, old, history, loss.
Back to Isengard...conflicted--it's beautiful in a cold way but also that element of potential *bad-ness* (???)

$$$
I don't even need/want to know the bill on this one! From a practical side--I assume lots of people earned a living, which is a good thing in my book.

Thanks bunches for leading this week!




 
Thank you for posting these, I loved them! There is something in the last one that really touched me... I think I thought of Elrond's wife... I don't know why but it looked to me like her, like the way he would see her somewhere beyond reality... [sorry]

Extraordinary discussion, I'm still reading and reading! Thank you so much, I learned a lot! [heart]
 
You guys are good!

For you, movie fan, again, may we ask if you think their efforts paid off? Did they get things right?

Well, all of these people worked really hard to design these movies specifically for me. Considering how much I like them I would have to say yes, they got it right. [;)]
Also, considering how many other people like these movies specifically designed for me, again I would have to say yes. [:)]

Thank you, hobbitlove and ordinaryhobbit. Your efforts have paid off too! This has been a blast!
 
I'm talking about the number of times that the film images are used as illustrations for all kinds of Tolkien-themed efforts.

At the Tolkien conference at the Universitiy of Vermont, for example, several of the scholars used slide presentations to illustrate their talks, which typically included film images to convey their points. Even in papers that expressed disdain for the way the films treated an aspect of the books, they used shots from the films to support their non-film arguments in other areas.

On TORn, too, I've seen film images used in footers or posts from time to time by people who are on record for not really liking the films in terms of plot or character...

So I think the "look" of the films is genuinely appreciated by a wide spectrum, that goes way beyond those, like me, who are rather fond of them...

The line you quote from Kristin Thompson - "the film's careful, imaginative design, more than anything else, won over fans and made them more willing to excuse the changes in the plot" -- is a good one. Doesn't Jackson say this same thing somewhere -- that he hoped that if they got the "look" of Middle Earth right, the fans would be more forgiving of changes? Looks like he was right on that one!

Thanks for a great week -- lots and lots of amazing things and you covered them amazingly well!

**To hob and ohob -- you rock!**
 
Oh, dear! For the purists, it must be very frustrating to have these films become such a pervasive part of the world of Tolkienism; hope that isn't a blasphemous term, Tolkienism. This is what they have feared all along would happen, and it has, of course, but to actually become a means of spreading this non-pure Tolkien...
The "look" is appreciated and accepted in as many ways and degrees as there are Tolkien fans - so really, it's not sacrilege, just art.
That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks for more great comments, Weaver.
hob
 
**clicks heels together and wishes she could make time stand still long enough check out all of these discussions in one day**

Absolutely not a waste of time or money! I agree with Kristin Thompson. Won me way over! Wait...idea???

**clicks heels together and wishes ME really existed so she could go have lunch in Hobbiton with Sam and the guys, and then go shopping with Eowyn in Rohan**

Oh, well, doesn't look like my time wish is working either. Bummer.

I have to say when I finally got to watch the EE Appendices, I was shocked by things I thought were real or existed in New Zealand that turned out to be miniatures, bigatures, or were digitally created. They did an incredible job making places feel and look like they existed.

Overall, with the size of this film production, to still see such detail and obvious time put into even the tiniest prop with only a split second screen time, I think they got it all right.





 
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I have trouble expressing the depth of my appreciation for the effort that has gone into these films. For me, they don't even identify as films anymore. They're a depiction of history because of those details; that thought; that expert quality that recreated every scrap of those props; every performance; every note; every word. These films are as complex as the story. Balanced on the edge of a knife. If one element, from lighting to direction, had been mediocre, it would have failed perfection and believability. They would have been typical movies.

You have been a perfect voice for this topic, hob and ordinaryhob. Thank you so much! *bows deeply* What a joy you are!

*warm hug*
 
These aren't very good screenshots, but it does give one an idea of how good they really are.
Dan Hennah called them "the most beautiful, stunning pieces of artwork" and he should know good art when he sees it, right?

Maybe some day we'll have prints of these. One can dream.

Thanks, Weaver.
hob
 
Sorry it took us so long to get around to answering - but, it's just lovely to have you here and enjoying these discussions. We are always eager to have comments from movie-firsters. I think that is a really good perspective to have, as you are able to see the films as are best seen - without preconceptions. A million thanks for taking the time to comment.

{hugs}
hobbitlove and ordinaryhobbit
 
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