Durin's Ring, Durin's Bane, Durin's Folk, the malice of The Enemy, The Ring of Thrain, and amazing flashback potential

[AinurOlorin]

The vision of the potential scenes won't entirely leave my thought. . . A prologue of brief narration by our favourite Wizard, quickly outlining the essentials, all the while tying it subtly in with the proluge from Fellowship. "Of Olde Seven Rings of Power were given to the Dwarf Lords, and the greatest of these was gifted to Durin, eldest and mightiest of the Dwarven Forefathers. . .but though the Rings could inflame in the Dwarves an unsatiable lust for treasure, akin to the obsession of dragons, the dwarves could not be bent to the will of the Ring Maker, nor turned to phantoms or wraiths. Thus they gained the unending Malice of The Enemy, and their Rings became cursed with ill fortune. It was this malice that awoke, in the very foundations of the dwarves most sacred Kingdom, an evil too ancient and powerful for even King Durin and his fierce folk to withstand. . . " Cue scene of Durin (actor made to look like one of the most notable and noble seeming of the dwarves from the Fellowship opening, an easy enough task since they were buried in prosthetics), the heated wind and glow of a demon's hellife beating upon his face, turning to his son ( I know the Balrog killed Nain within a year, but that is the sort of thing that would probably be truncated out, interesting and sinister though it is) and thrusting the Ring into his hand his Great Ring, with an urgent plea for the latter to flea and lead (noise and glimpse of dwarven warriors being slain six ways till Sunday in the background) their people to safety, perhaps noting, "Khazad-Dum is lost. And against this foe, there is no hope of vengeance." *Takes up his great axe and goes to his doom*, perhaps we see fragments of the smoking, ruined axe come flying back into the chamber. A touch more brief dialogue of how the Dwarves fled Moria and migrated North to found a new kingdom at Erebor. "The Ring of Durin continued to be an heirloom of his descendants, passed in unbroken line from father to son, until at last it came to the hands of Thror and Thrain" Here, the end fraction of the proluge, focusing on Thrain, Dol Guldur and Gandalf would begin.



There are strong indications that The Ring of Thrain and Thror, which was once the Ring of Durin, is going to get some attention in these films, or that this was at least Sir Peter's intent. This Great Ring is present on the finger of Thror in Erebor, and we know that conversation concerning The Seven amongst The White Council WAS filmed, though whether it was an outake, a converastion intended for EE or for the Smaug film, we cannot yet say. Something akin to this would greatly help in tying the currently loose strands of Durin and his folk, The Greatest of The Seven Dwarf Rings, THe Balrog of Moria (Bane of much name dropped and sacred Durin, cause of the fall of Moria and terror of The Dwarves, not to mention most iconic villain of Fellowship), the matter of Moria (one that won't lie until Balin lies resting therein), Thror's possesion of a Great Ring, Thrain's recieving of it and his capture.

 

[elaen32]

This would be a really good scene and I really think that they have to have the dwarven rings in the mix, considering everything else that has been chucked in there! I hope you have the gift of foresight and that something like this comes to pass

 

[lurtz2010]

Or has TH movies made you like this? Anyway if they go on about the balrog too much won't alot of people get confused between the stories of the balrog in Moria and the dragon in Erebor? They're quite similar. I would like to see all that history shown in the movies though, maybe if Smaug does die at the end of DOS then all the Moria stuff could be made relevant for TABA with the Bo5a and Dain etc?

 

[AinurOlorin]

to a vastly expanded version of a story that focuses so heavily on Durin's heirs and folk, to delve into those two essential aspects of Durin's fate, and of Dwarven history. Durin's Ring, which later became the Ring of Thror and of Thrain and drove each of them to near madness and deadly folly once THe Ring Maker was again stirring in the world (and played no small part in the hoarded wealth that brought the Dragon), and Durin's Bane, The Balrog, slayer of the most sacred of the Dwarven King's ( Durin has already been mentioned by name six times in An Unexpected Jurny alone), most fundemental nightmare of all Durin's folk (when the dwarves speak of him at all it is in a terrified whisper, and Gimli explicitly says he is what haunts their darkest dreams), and a nightmare even of the High Elves, and also the enforcer of their exile. Erebor was, after all, still a home in exile. Moria was the sacred ancestral hall to which they could not return. Thror attempted it in his madness, but even had Azog ended up as dead as in the actual tale, there would have been no home return for Durin's heirs.

Indeed (and as the movie's visual companion acknowledges this I very much hope the movies will as well), Azog and his people could never have claimed Moria had it not already been long abandoned by the dwarves whom The Balrog drove into flight nearly a thousand years earlier (a fair number of Lothlorien's Elves fled as well, just in response to the terror and power of evil that came out of Moria when he awoke).

There is also the consistency matter I have mentioned elsewhere. It will look very bizzare and more than a trifle staged if a place that audiences see prominently displayed in THe Hobbit movies, suddenly is "revealed" to be the home of an ancient, terrifyingly powerful and dreadful demon who just happens to have not been mentioned in any way, shape or form in the "preceding" movies, and only emerges, with virtually no prior history save a few ominous lines of ancient lore from a taunting Saruman, to provide a convient Boss Level Battle for Gandalf, just when the plot requires that he not be present to lead and protect the Fellowship for a while.

Or has TH movies made you like this? Anyway if they go on about the balrog too much won't alot of people get confused between the stories of the balrog in Moria and the dragon in Erebor? They're quite similar. I would like to see all that history shown in the movies though, maybe if Smaug does die at the end of DOS then all the Moria stuff could be made relevant for TABA with the Bo5a and Dain etc?

 

[AinurOlorin]

[]

This would be a really good scene and I really think that they have to have the dwarven rings in the mix, considering everything else that has been chucked in there! I hope you have the gift of foresight and that something like this comes to pass

 

[jimmyfenn]

remember when they said they were gonna make the hobbit into a film? ahhh the good old days.

 

[lurtz2010]

I'm so glad they're expanding it. I think TH is the best epic fantasy story ever and with all the history and Necomancer stuff added makes it 100x better.

 

[The Mitch King]

That seems like WAY off the mark for THE HOBBIT movies! Maybe mention the ring a tad somewhere but no way should it get a long prologue with all this Durin business.

 

[Yngwulff]

The more dwarven history backstory, the better IMHO

 

[AinurOlorin]

to compensate for the nonsense. If we can waste several minutes watching a fabricated Dwarf history in whic Azog evade his true fate, get into it with Thorin, and chase him all over Wilderland when Bolg doing so would have sufficed, CERTAINLY there should be time, in this film that constantly mentions Durin's beard, heirs, day and arse (well, maybe not ass lol) to give a little of the true history of Legendary Durin as it relates to this film Sextet/hexology. I.E. the Ring he had that Sauron wanted back and which brought his folk such ill luck, and later drove the very relevant Thror and Thrain to madness (this will go a long way to explaining what made Thror think he could return to Moria in the first damn place) and was the cause of Sauron desiring to make a prisoner of Thrain, and of course The Demon who Killed Durin and became the most feared figure in all the legends and histories of the Dwarves of The Third Age, and who reigns above all others, Azog included, in the place where Balin will later meet his fate. The Demon who we will see in Fellowship and be told was the age old terror of Moria. . . twould be nice to not have that seem like a last minute development.

That seems like WAY off the mark for THE HOBBIT movies! Maybe mention the ring a tad somewhere but no way should it get a long prologue with all this Durin business.

 

[malickfan]

with all the history and Necomancer stuff added makes it 100x better

Er what Necromancer stuff? As far as i can remember there is virtually nothing in the appendices (the only additional materil they have the rights to) other than a few dates and one line references: 'Gandalf enters Dol Goldur and discoveres The Necromancer is indeed Sauron'.

As for the cartoon I personally like it alot, coz its you know a adapation of The Hobbit, which in my book is primarily a stand alone story.

 

[Yngwulff]

A few hints the readers would get as regards to gndys doing during the quest when he was absent and call it a day.

A little more and accurate portrayal of the dwarven backstory would have been better and do 2 films.

No Rhaddy ... as much as i liked him and follow the KISS principle

 

[elaen32]

[] But I agree- and quite outside of the book fans, there are going to be more casual movie only fans asking "Who is this Durin guy anyway?" since there are many mentions, but no explanations. Far too late to just stick to the events of the book only!

 

[lurtz2010]

So what if it's only a few sentences and dates in the books? What PJ is doing with it just adds more epic fantasy elements to an already epic story. Would you really prefer it if Gandalf just disappeared then came back later without explaination like in the book? The Necromancer plotline has amazing potential and I think what PJ has done with it so far is perfect.

 

[The Mitch King]

with all the history and Necomancer stuff added makes it 100x better

Er what Necromancer stuff? As far as i can remember there is virtually nothing in the appendices (the only additional materil they have the rights to) other than a few dates and one line references: 'Gandalf enters Dol Goldur and discoveres The Necromancer is indeed Sauron'.

As for the cartoon I personally like it alot, coz its you know a adapation of The Hobbit, which in my book is primarily a stand alone story.

If we didn't get DG than we wouldn't hardly see Gandalf the next movie and some of the third. Lets be honest Gandalf is the biggest character in PJ's movies. ALL the movie goers know Gandalf and want to see him. Since the LOTR were made first you have to explain to audiences (who will want to know) whats up with Sauron at this point.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

with all the history and Necomancer stuff added makes it 100x better

Er what Necromancer stuff? As far as i can remember there is virtually nothing in the appendices (the only additional materil they have the rights to) other than a few dates and one line references: 'Gandalf enters Dol Goldur and discoveres The Necromancer is indeed Sauron'.

I am not completely happy with how Jackson is handling the Necromancer subplot. However, I do think that it is necessary for the fim audience to see what Gandalf is up to after he leaves Bilbo and the Dwarves. Film has different needs versus a prose novel. Along the same lines, I think it is preferable to introduce Bard earlier in the tale, rather than just when Smaug attacks Lake-town. Again, though, I'm not sure that I will like how our director approaches the subject.

 

[The Mitch King]

to compensate for the nonsense. If we can waste several minutes watching a fabricated Dwarf history in whic Azog evade his true fate, get into it with Thorin, and chase him all over Wilderland when Bolg doing so would have sufficed, CERTAINLY there should be time, in this film that constantly mentions Durin's beard, heirs, day and arse (well, maybe not ass lol) to give a little of the true history of Legendary Durin as it relates to this film Sextet/hexology. I.E. the Ring he had that Sauron wanted back and which brought his folk such ill luck, and later drove the very relevant Thror and Thrain to madness (this will go a long way to explaining what made Thror think he could return to Moria in the first damn place) and was the cause of Sauron desiring to make a prisoner of Thrain, and of course The Demon who Killed Durin and became the most feared figure in all the legends and histories of the Dwarves of The Third Age, and who reigns above all others, Azog included, in the place where Balin will later meet his fate. The Demon who we will see in Fellowship and be told was the age old terror of Moria. . . twould be nice to not have that seem like a last minute development.

That seems like WAY off the mark for THE HOBBIT movies! Maybe mention the ring a tad somewhere but no way should it get a long prologue with all this Durin business.

He helped push along the company whereas in the book I cannot recall what advanced them to Rivendell and I thought the final scene was greatly improved from the book. Bolg is being saved for another role and I feel confident that when all is said and done we will have a very coherent story and a great idea of the larger world than what the book alone gives us. This very well might be the last ME movie so I'd like to see whats going on in the world at this point in history. A big complicated history of Durin is not going to help anything and Thrain and DG will give us enough about the ring if they choose to utilize its story. Plus the Balrog is very much irrelevant to the story whereas Azog was used to push the journey onwards. It would also take out any "specialness" of when we get to see the Balrog for the first time in FOTR. You complain about PJ mishandling the current dwarven history yet you want him to indulge in much more of it and more important parts of it. Why would you want him possibly ruining your favorite tidbits of the history??

 

[jimmyfenn]

its funny how the hobbit book was liked by anyone considering all the terribly bad choices tolkien made, no azog no necromancer, tut tut tolkien you did a bad job.

or maybe the film is wrong an completely dismisses the original vision for something more hollywood.

 

[Lusitano]

jackson works those beefed up legs of manu bennet up to Mirkwood...the company needs some pushing into that forest, some excitement, the pacing is terrible in that part of the book.

 

[The Mitch King]

its funny how the hobbit book was liked by anyone considering all the terribly bad choices tolkien made, no azog no necromancer, tut tut tolkien you did a bad job.

or maybe the film is wrong an completely dismisses the original vision for something more hollywood.

I'm sorry but you don't have to dislike the book to realize that the movie required a little more to work. Tolkien did put the Necromancer in there by the way. Should we disregard his other writings about it?? Just pretend nothing else is going on at this time? Silly!