DOS prologue

Greypilgrim

Greypilgrim

Bree
Now we all know that PJ likes a good old prologue. So far all of his middle earth films have them so I see no reason why he would break this trend with DOS.

The question is, what will the prologue of DOS be? What are your ideas and/expectations?

I am hoping for one thing in particular to take the form of this particular prologue. I want to see DOS open with a flashback to Gandalf in Dol Guldur receiving the map and key from Thrain. I can't think of a better thing to open it with. What else could they do? I was expecting this flashback to be in AUJ at first.

People have speculated that they expect to now see the map and key scene take place in another location (aka Moria) as Gandalf suggested he had never been to DG before in his convo with Radagast in AUJ. But since the last video blog has come out there are now shots of Gandalf in Dol Guldur with and without Glamdring. There may have been some before too? This suggests that they are going to show Gandalf's first journey there where he meets Thrain for the first time. And then he will return to investigate later, meeting a crazed (resurrected?) version of Thrain.

From what I have read on here about the latest Empire magazine coverage of the whole thing- Thrain's part in the film is going to be fleshed out more than it was already. I've heard rumours that they have re-cast the actor also.

I will be disappointed if the map and key scene isn't included at all. Ever since the hobbit films were even mentioned that's the first scene I imagined and wanted to see. Gandalf narrowly escaping as he delves into the deep, dark and unknown. Then he receives some artefacts of as yet unknown importance from a mysterious imprisoned dwarf on his death bed! I believe they have filmed it as I saw an interview where PB said they tried it in film one but felt it didn't work. So it will be interesting to see what they do. Fingers crossed for this as a prologue to DOS.

What does everyone think of this? Any other possible prologue material you think they might go for or that you want to see?
 
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Well I read on this site that the prologue for DoS would be surprising, yet recognizable.
Bree makes sense for the prologue, then. It would be surprising, yet recognizable, no?

I'm starting to doubt that the prologue will be at Dol Guldur. A possible reservation for that is
the scene involving Gandalf, Thrain, and the key. It might seem a bit too removed from the hobbit
Bilbo Baggins. I don't know if they'd want to start with something a little more pertinent to the main
characters and plotline. The key would usher in the origins of the quest in a way, but could
be more direct with an encounter between Gandalf and Thorin at Bree, as their conversation would
inevitably invite a certain burglar from the Shire. I think RA might've referred to this encounter in an interview.
He didn't mention it as a scene for a movie, but discussed this canonical instance to provide context for
a different talking-point. Plus, there have been some rumors from this board of Bree being a set.

I was actually thinking that this scene could be the prologue for movie 3, to go back to the origins of this quest
entirely, before the final, climactic acts -- sort of like in RoTK? But now I think it could be movie 2 indeed.

Let's imagine, shall we? let's take liberties...
That dwarven baritone voice singing the misty mountains, like when Thorin sings it in BagEnd. It's slow and
somber. The camera swoops over the roofs of a town. We see tiled roofs, smoke from chimneys, wooden framed
houses, cobbled streets with horses, the rustle and bustle of business, streets populated primarily with Men,
it's downcast with a sprinkle of rain of course! like Laketown from the trailer? Anyhow, It's Bree! What is the Misty
Mountains song playing with Bree as our setting? The camera keeps wandering the streets, peripatetically, keeping
us wondering. Why this song here? All of a sudden the camera pauses at a street corner, and...there is a dwarf in
Bree! He might be wearing a blacksmith apron being commissioned in Bree, or is maybe there just to hang out or passing
through or some other business. The Misty Mountains song trails away. Thorin is that glowing ember, still hot and capable of
kindling fire, but no kindling nonetheless and destined to be snuffed out indefinitely. As the hymn ends, we here Gandalf's raspy
voice clear his throat as if to gain THorin's attention. He calls Thorin Oakenshield by name. Then we go to scene with them in the
Prancing Pony conversing with ale and cheese and biscuit hor d'oeurves. The gravity of their enterprise has already been expatiated
off screen. They now talk of a burglar...Bilbo! Ends the prologue with Bilbo on Carrock?

this is all silly fictitious imagination of course, filling in 'gaps' from Tolkien's appendices sketch...
Thoughts? [sly]
 
The prologue will most probably feature Thrain, his imprisonment by Azog/Bolg/the Necromancer and his meeting with Gandalf. I can't really imagine anything else.

Yeah, it's true that they have recast the role of Thrain. Mike Mizrahi has been replaced by Sir Anthony Sher, a well known British actor.
 
but I think Gandalf mentions the meeting with Thorin in a discussion he has with members of the Fellowship after the War of the Ring. And this discussion is in the appendices. If you've got your copy in front of you -- anyone -- can you confirm?
 
I'm trying to find something I can copy and paste, instead of typing dialogue out. Rest assured though, Jackson has access to Gandalf and Thorin's meeting in Bree.
 
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I think the Empire magazine mention Sher dodging an Orc's assult, so it may be possible the prologue may focus on his involvement and departure from Azanulbizarr or perhaps his capture when he attempted to claim the Lonely Mountain.
 
And it would be great to see Bree and the Prancing Pony again – complete with man with carrot!

Let's imagine, shall we? let's take liberties...
That dwarven baritone voice singing the misty mountains, like when Thorin sings it in BagEnd. It's slow and somber. The camera swoops over the roofs of a town. We see tiled roofs, smoke from chimneys, wooden framed houses, cobbled streets with horses, the rustle and bustle of business, streets populated primarily with Men, it's downcast with a sprinkle of rain of course! like Laketown from the trailer? Anyhow, It's Bree! What is the Misty Mountains song playing with Bree as our setting? The camera keeps wandering the streets, peripatetically, keeping us wondering. Why this song here? All of a sudden the camera pauses at a street corner, and...there is a dwarf in Bree! He might be wearing a blacksmith apron being commissioned in Bree, or is maybe there just to hang out or passing through or some other business. The Misty Mountains song trails away. Thorin is that glowing ember, still hot and capable of kindling fire, but no kindling nonetheless and destined to be snuffed out indefinitely. As the hymn ends, we here Gandalf's raspy voice clear his throat as if to gain THorin's attention. He calls Thorin Oakenshield by name. Then we go to scene with them in the Prancing Pony conversing with ale and cheese and biscuit hor d'oeurves. The gravity of their enterprise has already been expatiated off screen. They now talk of a burglar...Bilbo! Ends the prologue with Bilbo on Carrock?

this is all silly fictitious imagination of course, filling in 'gaps' from Tolkien's appendices sketch...
Thoughts? [sly]
Click to expand...
 
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it will have to fit in with the transition to the company on the Carrock. What really fits that? I think you could do a Beorn prologue and then transition to the big bear head. None of the DG stuff really transitions nicely.

The title is Desolation of Smaug and usually they have a progue that flows into the title appearing. So maybe something about Smaug, Erebor, or Laketown. How about an extension of Smaug waking up! That could be cool.
 
We have the Nine waking up, maybe one of the Seven, two of the Three should be in action at Dol Guldur and the One is roaming free.
We need to know more about this story; this is the reawakening of Sauron.
Well, maybe this will be the flashback at the beginning of TABA.
As for DOS, I'd like to see the arrival of Gandalf in Middle Earth, at the Gray Havens, meeting up with Cirdan who will give him is Ring.
I know, all my evil thoughts are bent on those Rings.
:)
 
could be very interesting actually!

I do think that DG prologue could lead into Beorn's house or somewhere near the carrock though. I could see them showing the prologue then cutting to Gandalf in "real time" who has been relaying the story to Thorin or Bilbo. This to me seems perfectly do-able as In Two Towers Gandalf falling with the Balrog lead to Sam and Frodo by means of a similar thing i.e. Frodo "dreaming".

I don't see how they would make a Bree prologue that interesting in my opinion. The prologues are usually either very action packed or very dramatic, profound and dark in some way, the Bree idea doesn't have that, but thats not to rule it out completely. It is a nice bit of the backstory but I also feel to bring Bree into the story just randomly for a prologue might not be the best idea. It could confuse it with Laketown later in the film. The design of Laketown doesn't look 100% away from that of Bree from what I have seen, not to say they look "similar".
 
FotR - Battle of the Last Alliance
TTT - Gandalf VS. Balrog
RotK - Smeagol's Transformation
AUJ - Coming of Smaug

All of these featured enormous fight scenes save RotK which was rather atypical. It stands to reason that DoS will follow this trend and open with something visually striking. Bree doesn't ring true to me for this reason, unless say, Thorin's menaced by Billy Ferny and Gandalf lets out another blast from his staff (which would be silly but funny, especially if Peter Jackson's burping carrot guy were an inexplicably slow-aging Ferny). The Thrain background/Moria/Necromancer might work, I suppose...however, could they do an abridged version of this without narration (which both FotR and AUJ had, but neither TTT or RotK used for their openings)?

Personally, I think its something we haven't thought of yet.
 
If one of the things that's actually in the appendices doesn't end up in one of the movies I mean all the stuff they're doing, white council,radagast,tauriel and they don't have time for the meeting in Bree?
 
The chance meeting that set off the events in the Hobbit?
Yeah that would be a shame.
 
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I have thought of that myself. To be honest, I'm a very big PJ fan, albeit I'd prefer it to be truer to Tolkien's work but having studied the medium of film and having been a fan of The Hobbit for many years, I do not always agree with PJ's changes or additions but I do not hate the films by any means.

That said... if they're going to use the Appendices, when people on the forum mention things such as the Balrog of Moria, I'd like to at least get a mention or something more than the mere glow in AUJ. I'd like to see the meeting in Bree. I'd like to see Gandalf first receiving the key. So forth. If they can add in all these things, they ought to be able to adapt (in some form) some of these scenes, yes?
 
When they said they were going to go from 2 to 3 films, I thought that was what PJ was going to do ... add more canon stuff from the appendices not more made up material ... ah well they're still good, just not as good as I hoped they'd be with the inclusion of this appendice material ...
 
DOS:
Gandalf in Dol Guldur

TABA:
I believe in an interview, Girion's Jewel's are said to be of more importance, so how about more of Smaug's attack on Dale, with Girion calling men to arms, finishing with present day Bard in Lake Town.
 
Might explain why any prologue or flashback that has a substantial part for Thrain has had to wait until DOS to be included thanks to the actors availability. The very exciting possibility of Sher playing Thrain ( I really hope it's true) is one no doubt PJ would wait for.
 
It has been confirmed that AUJ EE will contain an extended prologue which features the jewels and Girion, so I think TABA will have something related instead to the necromancer plotline, which I'm betting won't be resolved until midway through the 3rd film.
 
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