Casuals will be surprised by the BOFA outcome.

macfalk

macfalk

Valinor
With "casuals" I mean regular movie-goers who perhaps watched LOTR once or twice in the past, and probably hasn't read the books (and I don't mean the label "casual" as something mocking, I just can't find a better word for this type of audience). I even talked with a casual fan the other day after having watched AUJ that he reacted to the fact that Tolkien doesn't have the guts to kill his main characters. I guess this is true, everyone knows that Tolkien is no GRRM in that regard. So I imagine their surprise when they get to see the big massacre with 3 main characters dying brutal, painful (and slow, in Thorin's case) deaths. Nothing like this ever happened in LOTR, and The Hobbit which has a more light-hearted tone... I think people will be surprised. Very surprised... and I'm looking forward to it!

Thorin/Fili/Kili's fate is Tolkien's Red Wedding [cool]
 
I never thought of it like that. I'm kinda glad I read the book now. That kind of spoiler will prevent a heart attack[;)]

Besides, after the Red Wedding I threw my hands up "Forget it! I'm done!" Cause it seems the minute you pick a favorite, they're doomed[sly]
 
These scenes need to be done to perfection, with the proper cutting and music, to have that kind of deeper impact. Since this is a rarety in the case of TH and LOTR, they should really knock it out of the park with the scene.

If done correctly, it can bring anyone to tears. The music that's played when Gandalf falls in FOTR is flawless and unforgettable, for instance.
 
Yes, certainly... I read the Hobbit several years after I had discovered Tolkien and was absolutely shocked when all of them died.

Since I knew that they are Thorin's heirs I somewhat assumed that he would die and we would get a "young" king under the mountain. That they would die too... shocker.


Btw... don't remind me of the RW... after that that book series went all to pieces imho ;)
 
It's crucial to get it right. Thorin's deathbed is probably the saddest moment in any Tolkien book.
 
But also remember that Boromir was a main character who actually dies!
PJ made that scene perfect, with his last dying worlds to Aragorn [:)]
I am sure he will do the same with Thorin (Fili and Kili) in The Hobbit [;)]
 
I might steal that! I am always looking for words to refer to the general populace, without being an elitist snob. (I have been one. I was NOT the kind of guy you wanted to meet, back then.)

Thanks!!!
 
and main character. LOTR actual physical deaths:

Gandalf
Boromir
Théoden
Denethor

Gandalf is a little bit of a cheat because he comes back, but there it is.

But if you are talking existentially then these main characters die:

Frodo
Galadriel
Elrond
Gandalf (for real this time)
Sam (eventually)
Legolas and Gimli (eventually)
 
Denethor isn't a main character, Theoden and & Boromir are indeed important characters but nowhere near as major as Thorin. I also wouldn't count any of those in your second list.
 
The reason I would count all those on the second list is because they all leave Middle Earth in what can be considered "death" by the people who remain. Remember what Legolas says when he hears the prophesy Galadriel sends him "What, would you have her speak opening to you of your death" Said to Gimli in reference to his hearing the seagulls, having the sea-longing awakened in him and finally being unable to resist going to Elvenhome. This discussion gets into Tolkien's theology and what he would consider death and what it means to leave earth and go to Heaven. Christians talk about this world as being not their home -- sort of like the elves yearning for the Undying Lands. But that's probably another thread.

A question to ask is: what is the assumption behind "having the guts to kill off major characters?" Is the assumption that one is not a good author if one doesn't sacrifice one or two major players before all is done?
 
I think the idea is that it strains credibility and smacks of a trite happy ending if all major characters survive until the end. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion but that's the argument that's often put forward.

I don't think it's a requirement to kill characters for a story to be realistic or to matter. There should be change and consequence though. Tolkien doesn't have many of his characters physically die but there are certainly sacrifices and dramatic character arcs that result from their journeys.
 
me a bit of mind [:(] [;)] lol
I might steal that! I am always looking for words to refer to the general populace, without being an elitist snob. (I have been one. I was NOT the kind of guy you wanted to meet, back then.)

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
 
In Lotr there are cases when good guys die, especially if they have disagreed with Gandalf. Witness Boromir, Denethor, even Theoden to a degree. Now Thorin has shown himself to be argumentative with Gandalf, not liking Bilbo too much at the start etc. I don't know how Jackson will portray the row with Bilbo at the end! I'm not sure that every casual viewer will be that surprised to see Thorin's demise!
 
Denethor isn't a main character, Theoden and & Boromir are indeed important characters but nowhere near as major as Thorin. I also wouldn't count any of those in your second list.
Click to expand...


I think you are reaching in an attempt to defend the faulty argument in your original post.

Thorin's role in the relatively short book The Hobbit is that of a secondary character to Bilbo (and to Gandalf for most of the book too.) Boromir's role in The Fellowship of the Ring isn't that much smaller. Theoden's role in two books, The Two Towers and Return of the King, certainly isn't any smaller. I think the point about killing off Gandalf, Boromir, and Theoden was a very appropriate rebuttal to the idea that Tolkien won't kill off major characters.



Also, GRRM's latest book was crap. Tolkien deserves better than to be compared to that guy.
 
Karl Urban performed that moment perfectly. Definitely gut wrenching. I hope and trust scenes will be done just as well in the Hobbit .
 
... if you are a "serious" author, it takes more guts to write a happy ending and not kill people off, than it does to do the opposite, knowing that your work will be immediately dissed as soft-centred. Like modern classical composers daring to write music that is not either arid and minimal or wall-to-wall dissonance (though I think that particular tide is turning now ).
 
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