Can Smaug sense the Ring ?

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Rohan
In the Hobbit, Smaug can notice the smallest item missing from his treasure and he is thus only half "asleep" the first time Bilbo enters the inside of the Mountain.

But...as Bilbo is invisible - can Smaug sense the Ring's power also ?
 
since when Tolkien wrote those scenes, he didn't know what the One Ring was yet.

If things had worked out differently, then I'm sure it would be the case.
 
The Hobbit was backwards-written into LotR so the One wasn't what it became when Tolkien wrote the scenes w/Smaug. But to try to rationalise for the professor I'd guess that because Sauron was not yet strong and in any case preoccupied w/the White Council near to Dol Guldur I'd say he wasn't yet strong enough to dominate a particularly powerful dragon like Smaug.
Therefore we're given another Tolkien "eucatastrophe" in that because Sauron happened to be distracted at EXACTLY the "right time" that the Ring didn't make Smaug aware and betray Bilbo at a MOST inopportune moment.
 
Just postulating here, but I wonder if a dragon would be as sensitive to Sauron's Ring as one of his lesser servants would be. I kind of see Smaug as more of a free agent than a thrall of Sauron. His wickedness makes him apt to Sauron's plans - he is always just naturally disposed toward slaughter and plunder, and sure, he is willing to wreak havoc if Sauron asks - but perhaps he is a more autonomous kind of tool in Sauron's hands - somewhat along the lines of Shelob. And so, maybe he is not drawn to the Ring in the same way that lesser evil creatures are influenced by its power. Just a thought.
 
Balrogs were Sauron's peers - Maiar in their origins and while I don't recall it being explicity said, when Morgoth made dragons he put 'fell spirits' into them that I can only assume were also Maiar as there were no lesser spirits named that would, in my estimation, 'fit the bill' for what dragons were in terms of might.
If that assumption is true, then both the balrog and Smaug would be bad choices for Sauron since 'the greater part' of his former power was in the Ring he'd then be enslaved to another Maia if they had the Ring.
 
But since Smaug can tell when the least of his vast treasure horde is missing (say a cup), then it is likely he could sense an artifact as great and valuable as the One Ring. And he would covet it.

And if it fell into his possession, I don't find it likely that Sauron could overcome the greed of a dragon and get it back like he could with the Nazgul, who are enthralled to the Dark Lord via their Rings of Power. Sauron has no such control over Smaug, who would be answerable to none but Morgoth in the good old days.

Much collateral damage would ensue in the battle to retrieve it.
 
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Smaug sensed Bilbo's presence, and conversed with him. Bilbo was wearing the Ring. The only in-story explanations I can think of for Smaug not getting it are (a) the Ring/Sauron were still so inert that it didn't have much attractive power, or (b) it thought its options with Bilbo were preferable to control by Smaug, who (as others have noted) was powerful and probably not susceptible to control.
 
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but the reason Smaug knew about the cup missing was that he had spent decades (if not a century) turning over the treasure, counting it, sorting it, evaluating it's value. He brooded over his treasure, collected it together and made it his bed. Of course he knew when one was missing.

But he's not a metal detector- he doesn't go "ooh shiny" and sense the ring- he has never seen it before. Of course, if it was his and Bilbo had it, of course he would notice it missing.
 
Even if Smaug could sense that Bilbo had *something* (whether he knew what it was, whether it was gold etc is irrelevant), would Smaug have really of cared?

He would have been more concerned that a mysterious person (which he hadn't never smelt) had dared enter the Lonely Mountain and converse with him, especially as he had blocked all known exits/entrances, and could smell horse and dwarf.

I think Smaug would have been more bothered my this, than a *sense* of something.
 
That seems to be an innate ability of dragons. I would speculate that the One Ring might have still been in its semi-dormant state and was not exuding its power. But it could have been more than that. The Ring could have sensed that being discovered by Smaug would bring it no closer to its Master. The dragon might be more likely to keep a Ring of Power for himself--even the Master Ring. And, more than that, as a dragon, Smaug might prefer to keep the Ring secret and hidden even though using it would increase his already vast power and might even make him Sauron's equal.
 
Good points there Otaku-sempai - on a half serious note as well - what on earth could Smaug do with the Ring anyway? I would have thought, and as you point out, Smaug would have just kept it in his hoard. I think he would have had difficulty slipped on the ring.
 
It would size itself to him. He might have to wear it on a claw instead of an entire digit, but the Ring would make it work.
 
[tongue]
I would have thought that it would need to change shape as well - I'm not that knowledgeable of dragon anatomy [tongue], but I would have thought the Ring would hace to change size and shape for Smaug to easily use it.
 
Since four of the Dwarven rings were 'consumed' by Dragon(s), we can either assume that their wearers were eaten (whole and unsalted even though they probably tasted like the dirt they were made from) OR that 'consumed' could also refer to them being consumed by the unholy fire of the like of Ancalagon the Black or Smaug the Terrible.

So, wearing a ring of power does not protect the wearer from becoming vittles. Also, it almost seems like Dragons LIKE to eat ring bearers. Maybe they do sense the rings' power and it makes them hungry for it in some way. In which case, just being able to outrun your fellow, stubby legged Dwarf is not enough to save a ring bearer from a gruesome fate! Ich!
 
Maybe dragons simply have an appetite for dwarf. I would have thought that it is case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time [;)]
 
There's some statements on this thread aren't true, and you folks really need to read 'Myths Transformed' from HoME Volume 10, 'Morgoth's ring' to get the truth:

1. Balrogs & Sauron are NOT equeal. 'Tolkien plainly states in MT #8: 'Melkor currupted many spirits ~ some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs...'

2. A dragon having a 'fell spirit' in it does not make it as Maia. Tolkien goes on in MT #8: 'The least (of the spirits ~ my add) could have been primitive (and much more powerful & perilous) Orcs;

3. As far as Smaug having a 'Maiar' spirit, there's a quote in there ~ can't find it now (it's 6 AM & I can't sleep), but it basically says that a Maia that takes on physical form & reproduces does not produce Maia beings in reproduction: they spiritually weaken in each successive generation.....

We can see this with Luthien. Her descendants are 100% Elven; not 50% Elven & 50% Maiar, although it's a bit different there.

Chances are, Glaurung's given a 'fell spirit, a minor one at that. Somewhere between Balrog & Orc-Captain.

Let us not forget that a dragon's main strength is power, not spiritual.

So, even were Glaurung given a Maiar spirit, by the time the generations got to Smaug, no more Maia anyhow.
 
Never assume what other posters have or have not read and please do not get on a 'high horse' when you believe you have 'proof' to contradict something. I take offense to your rudeness not your information here.

In response:
1) Balrogs and Sauron WERE not equal. What was being discussed was the possibility of a balrog in possession of the One Ring, which Sauron allowed the greater portion of his former power pass into. In this situation, a balrog already a Maia would certainly have been more than Sauron's match as much of Sauron's former power would have been used against him. What was meant in the discussion is that because balrogs were Maia to begin with that they were equal with Sauron in rank and in the same general order of power, not fully equal in power which the vast majority of posters here are well-aware of.

2) Part of what was being discussed was what sort of 'fell spirit' could it be if not a Maia? Tolkien never names any spirits other than the Valar and Maiar (your mentioning "orc captain" is, in my opinion, entirely off-base as orcs are broken and enslaved elves and any talk of their 'spirit' is still elven in origin. We know that Morgoth could not create, only corrupt, so it fits that the spirits in dragons were Maiar, greater or lesser is open to interpretation.

3) Your quote of the Maia is for Maia who retained their own will and were not dominated by Morgoth. Your postulate that they spiritually weaken with each successive generation actually AIDS the Maiar theory as the dragons got far weaker as the ages of Middle-earth progressed.

You're comparing apples with oranges bringing Luthien into the discussion. She was considered an elf, not a Maia, for reasons Tolkien never gave.

I believe you're highly mistaken about Glaurung, given that Morgoth entrusted to him much more than he ever entrusted any other being except Sauron.

Not sure where you get the idea that power of might and spiritual power were discussions here? But in nearly all of Tolkien's writings the more powerful were nearly always more strongly spiritually connected, and this would fit with Tolkien's strongly Christian faith that all power would come from Eru.

Your final statement doesn't address the issue: we don't know how strong or weak Smaug's Maia spirit would be because we don't know how many generations he was removed from those Morgoth twisted (I won't say 'made' or 'created' because we've discussed that Morgoth does not 'make' nor 'create' ;) .
That also was discussed at some length in this thread was just how many generations down was Smaug? There's nothing written by Tolkien so we really don't know.

To paraphrase from Tolkien, "I don't remember smelling you before." (haven't seen you here on the boards). Welcome!
 
You ask 'where did I get that from' concerning 'Orc-Captains' being 'Maiar'?

Didn't you read the quote I posted?

Tolkien states it plainly:

'The least (of the these corrupted spirits, like Sauron & Balrogs) could have been primitive (and much more powerful & perilous) Orcs.

Oh, here's the quote on reproduction. It follows immediately (I'm looking through all the footnotes at 6AM, lol)

'But by practising procreation they would (cf. Melian) [become] more & more earthbound, unable to return to spirit-state (even demon-form) until released by death (killing) and they would dwindle in force.

Now what was that about Melian not applying here? [;)]

In case you're wondering, All this is page 410, HoME, Volume 10; Morgoth's Ring.

Finally, I believe you're on the wrong track about Sauron & Balrogs being 'relatively equal' because they're both Maiar to start with...

Tolkien states plainly that they're not. Shouldn't HIS word be our final authority ~ I know, what a crazy notion these daze! [sly]

seriously though, we might as well say by this line of thinking ~ 'they're both Maiar', we can carry it a step further & say: 'Balrogs & Valar are equal because they're all Ainur'. ~ humm...

See the slppery slope you've taken?

The fact is, Tolkien ~ not us ~ has clearly laid out that these spiritual beings, which come from the same source, have a huge range of 'spiritual power'.

In fact, by the time Malkor dwindles in strength to become Morgoth (BIG difference), he no longer even has the strength to take on certain Maiar who serve the Valar, like Arien, or for that matter, in The War of Wrath, Eonwe too.

BTW: Thanks for the greeting! [cool]
 
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