BBC Radio's The Hobbit Episode 2b: "Tra-la-la-lally" problem solved!

[Idril Celebrindal]

"Bombur! Wake up! You're out of your sack now!"

We rejoin the episode after Gandalf's return.

1. Could you visualize the trolls turning into stone as the sun comes up?

This is a tricky one to do with just audio -- after all, what would something suddenly turning into stone sound like? The "falling rock" sound effect is not a bad choice, though. I also like how Gandalf exclaims, "Dawn take you all and be stone to you" like he's giving an incantation -- for a second, even a die-hard Hobbit fan like me got the impression that he was the one who'd turned the trolls into stone!

2. What do you think of the comedic touches so far?

I like the humor in this radio adaptation. Bilbo babbles, tries to hoot like an owl, argues with the narrator (!), and in general behaves like a flustered member of the bourgeoisie. Thorin is in full "Who moved my cheese?" middle manager mode. Balin and Gandalf are acerbic. And now Bombur establishes his role as the Official Dwarven Comic Relief Character by falling asleep in his sack ... and snoring loudly. I think this last is a bit overdone, although it's funny enough and sets up Bombur's later slumber.

3. The Dwarves find the troll's cave easily enough. Does it strike you as odd that the trolls have barrels of bacon, ale, cheese and bread? What about their loot and the swords?

The cave is unlocked, so there's no need for a key to implausibly fall out of a troll's pocket!

This is another inconsistency that comes from eliminating the part where the supply pony was swept away. It seems a bit odd that the party would take the trolls' food, given how much they complain about the smell in the cave! Not a huge point, but it's something that a person who's unfamiliar with the original story might find puzzling. Of course, in the book, it's explained by their lost supplies. The radio adaptation also doesn't mention that the trolls have eaten half a village between them and presumably would have looted the villagers' food for a side dish.

I never really questioned the trolls' treasure hoard, though, even the presence of fabled weapons like Glamdring and Orcrist (not to mention Sting). Weirdly, it seems more plausible for trolls to have acquired valuable blades (the remnants of old plunder?) than it does for them to have gotten their hands on mundane things like beer!

The Dwarves' desire for gold is reinforced here by their repeated cries of "What about the gold?"

4. .What do you think of the party's entrance to Rivendell?

The Elves in this adaptation aren't quite as flighty as the Elves in the book, but they're still gossips who tease the Dwarves. The Dwarves in turn are irked that the Elves won't show themselves and a couple of Dwarves express their opinion in no uncertain terms. Bilbo, of course, is enchanted! Chanting in the background gives an appropriately ethereal air to the proceedings.

What I found intriguing is Balin's assertation -- "Elves are too full of themselves, if you ask me, just because they have more magic than us!" Jealousy! And it indicates a key point of difference between The Hobbit and LOTR: the use of magic. Magic is more commonplace in The Hobbit; especially in this adaptation, more characters are aware of it. In LOTR, magic is more of an intrinsic power that's tied to a person's will and strength of mind. Here the Dwarves seem familiar with it and resent the fact that they don't have magical powers.

The narrator chimes in again, describing the Last Homely House. Here again I think Bilbo could have done it.

5. How does Elrond come across? Do you like how he's portrayed?

I think Elrond is acted in appropriately grand style for someone "as noble and fair in face as an Elf Lord, as strong as a warrior, as venerable as a king of Dwarves, and as kind as summer." He even gets one up on Gandalf by reading the runes on the troll swords (neither book nor radio play ever explain why Gandalf can't read them) and discovering the moon letters on the map.

Elrond claims his motivation for helping the Dwarves is to destroy Smaug and avenge the town of Dale -- tall orders indeed, and ones that aren't mentioned in the original book. Do we have a bit of mission creep?

6. And about that tra-la-la-lally ... A common point of argument about the upcoming Hobbit movies is how GDT should handle Tolkien's description of the Elves singing things like "Tra-la-la-lally, way down in the valley, tra-la!" Prevailing thought is that this is simply too goofy to film as written and must be changed for the film adaptation's own good! How does the radio adaptation handle the issue?

By keeping the tra-la-la-lally! We hear a chorus of Elves singing "Tra-la-la-la-la ..." to the accompaniment of drums and pipes, representing their Midsummer's Eve revels. It's all very Renaissance-y. I think it's a decent solution to the problem that keeps a level of consistency with the original, fits the early music score, and most importantly, doesn't sound completely goofy.

Coming up next: Misty Mountain Hop! I'm going to lead the discussion for Episode 3, too, and will seque right into it on the next discussion post.

 

[mae govannen]

 

[grammaboodawg]

1. Could you visualize the trolls turning into stone as the sun comes up?

This is a tricky one to do with just audio -- after all, what would something suddenly turning into stone sound like? The "falling rock" sound effect is not a bad choice, though. I also like how Gandalf exclaims, "Dawn take you all and be stone to you" like he's giving an incantation -- for a second, even a die-hard Hobbit fan like me got the impression that he was the one who'd turned the trolls into stone!

I love it when Gandalf cries out here! These Trolls have wrecked havoc on the lands for a long time, it seems. So for him to come and have a bit of fun keeping them busy and to see them finally defeated had to be quite a rush!


2. What do you think of the comedic touches so far?

I like the humor in this radio adaptation. Bilbo babbles, tries to hoot like an owl, argues with the narrator (!), and in general behaves like a flustered member of the bourgeoisie. Thorin is in full "Who moved my cheese?" middle manager mode. Balin and Gandalf are acerbic. And now Bombur establishes his role as the Official Dwarven Comic Relief Character by falling asleep in his sack ... and snoring loudly. I think this last is a bit overdone, although it's funny enough and sets up Bombur's later slumber.

I LOVE THIS BILBO!!!! He's such a perfect choice for comedic timing, voice characterization, and sound. I find myself just waiting for him to mutter, talk or exclaim his little heart out! He's an absolute delight!

3. The Dwarves find the troll's cave easily enough. Does it strike you as odd that the trolls have barrels of bacon, ale, cheese and bread? What about their loot and the swords?

The cave is unlocked, so there's no need for a key to implausibly fall out of a troll's pocket!

This is another inconsistency that comes from eliminating the part where the supply pony was swept away. It seems a bit odd that the party would take the trolls' food, given how much they complain about the smell in the cave! Not a huge point, but it's something that a person who's unfamiliar with the original story might find puzzling. Of course, in the book, it's explained by their lost supplies. The radio adaptation also doesn't mention that the trolls have eaten half a village between them and presumably would have looted the villagers' food for a side dish.

I never really questioned the trolls' treasure hoard, though, even the presence of fabled weapons like Glamdring and Orcrist (not to mention Sting). Weirdly, it seems more plausible for trolls to have acquired valuable blades (the remnants of old plunder?) than it does for them to have gotten their hands on mundane things like beer!

The Dwarves' desire for gold is reinforced here by their repeated cries of "What about the gold?"

They definitately chose this episode to move ahead and skim over some "key" points I think they focus more on the food and such because when you're starving, cold and miserable, you'll take bacon over booty every time!

4. .What do you think of the party's entrance to Rivendell?

The Elves in this adaptation aren't quite as flighty as the Elves in the book, but they're still gossips who tease the Dwarves. The Dwarves in turn are irked that the Elves won't show themselves and a couple of Dwarves express their opinion in no uncertain terms. Bilbo, of course, is enchanted! Chanting in the background gives an appropriately ethereal air to the proceedings.

What I found intriguing is Balin's assertation -- "Elves are too full of themselves, if you ask me, just because they have more magic than us!" Jealousy! And it indicates a key point of difference between The Hobbit and LOTR: the use of magic. Magic is more commonplace in The Hobbit; especially in this adaptation, more characters are aware of it. In LOTR, magic is more of an intrinsic power that's tied to a person's will and strength of mind. Here the Dwarves seem familiar with it and resent the fact that they don't have magical powers.
The narrator chimes in again, describing the Last Homely House. Here again I think Bilbo could have done it.

I can't wait for Bilbo's enchantment over the Elves in the film!! And here, they took very good of his reaction. Again... I just love this Bilbo


5. How does Elrond come across? Do you like how he's portrayed?

I think Elrond is acted in appropriately grand style for someone "as noble and fair in face as an Elf Lord, as strong as a warrior, as venerable as a king of Dwarves, and as kind as summer." He even gets one up on Gandalf by reading the runes on the troll swords (neither book nor radio play ever explain why Gandalf can't read them) and discovering the moon letters on the map.

Elrond claims his motivation for helping the Dwarves is to destroy Smaug and avenge the town of Dale -- tall orders indeed, and ones that aren't mentioned in the original book. Do we have a bit of mission creep?

This Elrond is a good representation of how I envisioned the Elf-lord. Another great voice I like how this adaptation gives us a glimpse at Elrond's motivation for helping, but I wonder if he's saying this for the Dwarves' sake and really has alterior motives? Avenging Dale, fersher; but Smaug is also close to Thranduil and Mirkwood. Would having the threat of a dragon gone make it easier to plan moves against Dol-guldur? Whatever the reason, I do like the exchanges between Elrond, Thorin and
Gandalf.

6. And about that tra-la-la-lally ... A common point of argument about the upcoming Hobbit movies is how GDT should handle Tolkien's description of the Elves singing things like "Tra-la-la-lally, way down in the valley, tra-la!" Prevailing thought is that this is simply too goofy to film as written and must be changed for the film adaptation's own good! How does the radio adaptation handle the issue?

By keeping the tra-la-la-lally! We hear a chorus of Elves singing "Tra-la-la-la-la ..." to the accompaniment of drums and pipes, representing their Midsummer's Eve revels. It's all very Renaissance-y. I think it's a decent solution to the problem that keeps a level of consistency with the original, fits the early music score, and most importantly, doesn't sound completely goofy.

No tra-la-las PLEASE! Unless they have the singing outside where Gandalf, Elrond and the others are talking and Elrond walks over to the balcony and hollers... "ENOUGH! You've made your point!"



Coming up next: Misty Mountain Hop! I'm going to lead the discussion for Episode 3, too, and will seque right into it on the next discussion post.

Well Done!! Can't WAIT for more

 

[ArathornJax]

Well the holidays took me over by surprise! I'm back and looking forward to the next sequence! I truly hope everyone had a Happy Holiday and made very Merry on their New Year in whatever way was both safe and enjoyable for them.

1. Could you visualize the trolls turning into stone as the sun comes up?
Yes, I could tell that the trolls were turning to stone and I have to agree with you that I really liked Gandalf's receiting of these words from the book. It did sound like he was turning them into stone.

2. What do you think of the comedic touches so far?
I love this version of Bilbo so far! I think the actor or those who wrote the lines are setting up the listener for the changes that are to come. I think that is critical because like the narrator in the book says, it is up to us the audience to determine if Bilbo gained anything in the end. For me that is the key to any adaptation of The Hobbit, to show what Bilbo gained, and also what he reaffirms. I think the comic relief with Bilbo is helping us to know him, and how he deals in difficult circumstances, and it will be interesting to compare and contrast later in the adaptation.

3. The Dwarves find the troll's cave easily enough. Does it strike you as odd that the trolls have barrels of bacon, ale, cheese and bread? What about their loot and the swords?
The lost key was not a big distraction for me when compared to the book. I imagine here that the party gets rid of the spoiling items and keeps the good ones. No deodorant would make any cave that is closed off during the day stink. I have to change my beagle's kennel (he's an inside dog and has a indoor kennel he sleeps in) about every 2 weeks because of the scent that comes from it and it is well ventilated!
I'm like Idril, the treasure hoard has always made sense to me. I like the fact that later Elrond will ponder how they ended up there but nevertheless they do, and I'm fine with that. We begin to see the entrance of the greed of the dwarves and how that mimics in our way our own societies quest for greed and an over abundance of luxury that money can buy.

4. .What do you think of the party's entrance to Rivendell?
I have to say first off, I didn't like the chanting in the background the first time I listened to this adaptation. However, I changed my mind on that after listening to it again later. It does provide a feeling of what Idril calls "ethereal air". I like the fact that it makes the elves seem of this world and not. I like how the elves tease the dwarves, and how the dwarves are really full of themselves. Great comment on the difference of magic in The Hobbit and LOTR Idril. We could have a full discussion just on that point alone I think. I also agree the narrator wasn't needed here. Interesting that Bilbo could stay here forever, a little foreshadowing going on?

5. How does Elrond come across? Do you like how he's portrayed?
I enjoyed this Elrond. He sounds wise, strong and regal to me, one descended from Elf Lords and Heros of Men of the North. I find it interesting that Elrond can read the runes but Gandalf cannot. I like that though Elrond doesn't agree with the dwarven lust of gold he does think that Smaug must be destroyed and Dale be avenged. A tall order but one that had to be accomplished as one learns in Appendix A. Is it too much of a connection with LOTR though?

6. And about that tra-la-la-lally ... A common point of argument about the upcoming Hobbit movies is how GDT should handle Tolkien's description of the Elves singing things like "Tra-la-la-lally, way down in the valley, tra-la!" Prevailing thought is that this is simply too goofy to film as written and must be changed for the film adaptation's own good! How does the radio adaptation handle the issue?
I love how this is handled in the radio adaptation here. I enjoy the fact that it is handled as a celebration of the Elves on midsummer nights eve and to do honor to the company. It is to me as if the Elves are acknowledge the dwarves need to be recognize and for Thorin's ego to be played to. It would be a good way for this to be handled in the GDT's adaptation I think; perhaps to have the party getting ready to leave with the celebration going on with Tra-la-la going on in the background. Perhaps it would be a nice contrast to the departure of the Fellowship in FOTR. Here a joyous celebration and there a somber preparation. It would show the that though this is a serious adventure, it did not have the same finality to it as the departure of the Fellowship had. Yet as we move into the next episode I think the contrast of what this party goes through and what the Fellowship goes through is in many ways very similar. Outstanding points Idril! I look forward to your next post!