Attack on Dol Guldur

vexx801

vexx801

Rivendell
From what we can glean from the brief mentions and records of the event, the attack on Dol Guldur occurs during the Quest to Erebor, sometime after Gandalf leaves Bilbo and the dwarves before Mirkwood. Saruman agrees to the attack, hoping to prevent Sauron from searching the river. A question comes to mind concerning the film. Does this attack occur before, during, or slightly after the dwarves are captured in Mirkwood? I understand that Gandalf leaves to aid in the attack, yet he does not return until the Battle of the Five Armies. If this is the case, do the elves of Mirkwood aid in the attack, and would Thranduil (and subsequently Legolas) be involved? Simply something I had been curious about, as my copy of RotK does not give the exact dates or timing of those events.
 
The white council made the attack and the elves wouldn't have had much time to participate nor does it make much sense to me that they would.
 
Elves from Rivendell and Lorien may have been involved, but not the Woodland bunch. I don't think Tolkien had in mind a major attack, actually, but I'm sure Jackson can't resist having one.
 
I suppose the main reason I wondered was for practicality's sake: if elves of the Woodland Realm are off attacking at some point, how many would be left at the palace? If there are only a few left in the barrel area, then that would mean less elves for Bilbo to have to deal with. I've read a few other posts about Legolas being in the attack, but if he is not the attack, I'm sure he will likely be at the Battle of Five Armies.
 
mirkwood elves to the battle (legolas and tauriel)
what if legolas is sent along with the withe council to attack dol guldur? there will be no good hearted elf (infront of the camera) to contradict thranduil´s decisions, that would return bilbo his worth on helping the party to escape, and the book would still intact

Maybe they send Tauriel along with Legolas, no love interest, but as another elf warrior, and then they return for the BOFA, Legolas would still being a good guy, and close friend of Gandalf.

thought i still thinking that Tauriel could remain on Thranduil´s halls for some love interest(not with Bilbo) but with Kili perhaps, i dont know why but i feel this could be possible

they could die both at BOFA giving Thranduil a deeper repentance in the wat Thingol loosing his daughter because of his greedyness (but this is another story)
 
It could be that the better part of the Woodland Elves take part in assaulting Dol Guldur. In the film trilogy, the Dwarves (Gimli) and Elves (Legolas) are initially much more suspicious and even hostile towards each other at the Council of Elrond than in the books. That would seem a odd after their having made common cause to win the Battle of Five Armies. Thranduil's motives for sending a host to Erebor (to claim the hoard of Smaug) will also seem a little strange. Maybe the Mirkwood force at the BO5A will be more of a scouting party or Thranduil's bodyguard (if he himself is present), while Legolas and the bulk of the Woodland Elves will join with the White Council's attack on Dol Guldur.

I expect that the fall of Dol Guldur as described in the LotR appendices will be moved forward and combined with the expulsion of the Necromancer towards the end of the Hobbit (complete with Galadiel throwing down its walls and laying bare its pits, etc.). I like the idea from another thread that Sauron purposely drew the White Council's attention towards Dol Guldur (which he intended to evacuate in any case, as it had its strategic value once it became clear that the One Ring was no longer in the Anduin) in order to deal the Free Peoples a crushing blow at the BO5A (maybe his attention was also drawn further north because he sensed when Bilbo used the Ring?)

Dol Guldur and the BO5A might ultimately appear as hollow victories. Between their own losses and the realization that Sauron's power is growing, many of the Elves decide that the time to leave Middle Earth has come (though Galadriel will be tempted by the notion that she could use the One Ring to both defeat Sauron and preserve her realm in Lorien). The Dwarves and Men of Dale will be angered that so few Elves joined them at the BO5A, while Thranduil and other Elves will believe that it was the greed of Thorin and the Dwarves to reclaim Erebor which led to their misfortune. Saruman may have already begun his later machinations by secretly dissuading the other kingdoms of men (Rohan and Gondor) from responding to any request for aid.

Despite the seemingly happy ending, therefore, Sauron will appear to
have have successfully driven a wedge between his enemies just as he
openly reemerges in Mordor.
 
...the trailer and discussion over it has got me thinking that maybe the attack on Dol Guldur will simply be Gandalf on his own.

My logic for this comes from the "Thrain is a wight" discussion in another thread. Plus Gandalf has Glamdring...
So Dol Guldur is shown first in a flashback, with him going only to the dungeons and seeing Thrain all dishevelled and acquiring the map and key.
Then the second time is already after Rivendell and the White Council where they decide that Gandalf should go alone to see whats going on once and for all.
Then Gandalf splits from Bilbo, Thorin & Co., and takes on the Necromancer, and an undead Thrain.

However, I'm probably wrong. Maybe this is like a preliminary mission to an attack by the full force in the second film, but IMO that would be unwieldy as a film plot. dunno

:)
 
if i not remeber wrong in an interview think it was the first hobbit empire article about the hobbit, they said that elrond and gandalf were looking for something at dol guldur

i dont feel that gandalf is going to make it with sauron alone, and thrain would be thrain almost dead, but not a zombie or whatever, BUT i feel that there is going to be a heavy battle at dol guldur, i doubt that if in the movies lorien elves go to dunarrow, here in the hobbit they clearly must go to dol guldur wich is far more closer than rohan

galadriel will use her soldiers and her ring

elrond also can bring up rivendell warriors and his ring

gandalf could go from mirkwood along with woodland elves and Tauriel or Legolas, or both

and Saruman will not appear maybe, indicating his evil thing going on

AND REMEMBER, at BOFA, maybe Gandalf will appear in the middle of the battle, with the rest of the host that are coming from the battle at dol guldur to put some sense into situation, imagine they hear information at dol guldur about goblin´s movements and they go to erebor ALA eomer

and finally, what about the ring of Thrain being used by Sauron to have some influence on erebor like the palantir stuff (this last idea is not so good)
 
You have a very active imagination, but what you propose has nothing to do with The Hobbit as it was written and would only distract from the main plot. The Elves of Mirkwood have nothing to do with the Dol Guldur action. In fact I would not be surprised if the action at Dol Guldur turns out to be a "Wizard's Battle" where armies are not involved at all.
 
i would like to see a wizards fight, but ir reminds me so much to what happened at the end of willow, it was so close to the battle between gandalf and saruman, i hope they bring up some diferent, the enemy they figh diserves it
 
...they can both be said to be magic users of a different kind to the Istari.

And don't forget that we may get Radagast at Dol Guldur too. And Christopher Lee's limited filming window doesn't necessarily preclude Saruman's presence either.
 
...but we know that, in FOTR, Elrond was able to call forth the river to repel the Nazgul (an ability given to Arwen in PJ's film), and also that Galadriel was eventually to pull down the walls of Dol Guldur, presumably through magical means. So I think there's room for spectacular displays of magic if PJ decides to go down that route :)
 
There are so many places in the story we can get to know something more about the three Rings (and the seven ones) and their particular powers and how they interact with the One Ring, I would be disappointed if they do not exploit that...
 
As we've been discussing on other threads, there are a lot of uncertainties in the Dol Guldur storyline. It will have to fit in with the main Hobbit plot, which it doesn't necessarily do directly as Tolkien wrote it, and ideally improve the film rather than being a distraction.

Timeline changes are definitely on the cards. If the attack happens at the end of Film 1, then Gandalf has nothing to do for the first three quarters of Film 2. That's very unlikely to happen. I think the Dol Guldur attack will happen in Film 2. This rules out the wood elves being involved, as they will be concerned with Smaug's horde. If any elves turn up, they will surely be related to White Council members.

My guess is that in film 1 it will only be Gandalf exploring Dol Guldur, perhaps discovering that the Necromancer is Sauron for the first time- i.e. not the same timeline as Tolkien. So the Dol Guldur question in Film 1 will be 'what dark power is lurking in Dol Guldur', which is only answered at the film end. This sets up the attack (which may or may not involve large armies) for Film 2.
 
More than one large battle with armies involved is tough to include in a film that's supposed to adapt a book where the only battle is at the very end of the quest. Inventing a whole battle would be a lot of work. A magical attack is plausible, for sure.
 
of their number only Gandalf is known to wander. When The Hobbit was written it was not so clear that there were so few wizards in the world, and so one could imagine an army of wizards attacking the Necromancer. But that is hard to reconcile with what we learn about the White Council in LotR. So it is possible that the White Council's attack will consist of Gandalf alone, perhaps armed with supplies and some sort of remote support from the other members of the White Council.
 
They were used to preserve and protect their realms, and had no aggressive power or military significance, since they were made in secret and never touched by Sauron.
 
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... the only ring that plays any part in The Hobbit is the one Bilbo finds and it's vital to the story that nobody realises what that ring is (except the audience). If at any point they make it seem that someone should have known then then it will make a nonsense of 'Fellowship of the Ring' whichever order people choose when they watch the films in future.

As for the Three, they were not weapons. The Elves used them in secret to heal and preserve. They have no interaction with the One because Sauron never touched them.

I'd like to see more of the Elves and more of the Dwarves in general - if they create a visual setting and culture for the Mirkwood Elves in the film and show us some of the background Dwarf history that's in the book I'll be well pleased, but The Hobbit isn't about the rings.
 
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