Argument over Legolas' appearance at either BOFA or Dol Guldur

raider111

Registered User
Both the idea that Legolas is a relative inexperienced "baby" among Thranduil's many children and the idea that he would have little to no battle experience prior to LOTR (or the BOFA) is highly unlikely and, if you're paying careful attention to dialogue and character in LOTR, almost ludicrous.

As pointed out before, Legolas refers to other members of the Fellowship as "children" and he does mention that he has seen many on oak from acorn to ruin. That statement does not imply many oaks that were all the same age dying in the same relative decade or so; instead, it implies that he has witnessed the entire process (from acorn to sapling to dying tree) many times over. Since oaks can live more than 200 years, this elf is seriously old. More importantly, Gandalf himself refers to Legolas as "a dangerous warrior." One thing about Gandalf is undeniable; he only says what he knows FOR SURE, and he is not the kind of soul who would make that kind of declaration on someone else's say-so. Therefore, it is likely that Gandalf has first-hand knowledge of Legolas' battle prowess. And why wouldn't he since Gandalf has kicked goblin and orc butt alongside the elves often. So Legolas at either Dol Guldur or BOFA is more than reasonable.

I also find very weak the claim that Legolas would somehow KNOW Gimli at Rivendell or be immediately reconciled to Dwarves if he had fought in BOFA. Nations and peoples who hold tepid at best relations with certain neighbors have often joined together to put down a common enemy, only to continue to disdain or misunderstand one another's cultures shortly after. As someone earlier stated, whether or not Thranduil actually reconciled with Thorin and company afterward, it doesn't mean that general mistrust and disapproval would not remain between the two races. It is much more likely that it would.

When Legolas speaks up to defend the elves' loss of Gollum at Rivendell in LOTR and a dwarf (Gloin?) snipes about not getting so good a treatment when they were "guests," there is neither recognition or lack of recognition of the Dwarf in Legolas' reply. He could know to whom he is speaking or not. No judgment can be made.

Having said all this, I find no problem with Legolas appearing in either place. Instead, I think it's another interesting way of tying together threads.

Besides, I know I read somewhere (I think it was a biography of Tolkien written by his son) that the character of Legolas was a very late addition by Tolkien into the storyline of LOTR. If I remember correctly, multiple drafts without him had been worked over before Tolkien decided that, without him, the elves were merely this shadowy and mostly absent presence in the story. He felt they needed some up front representation. This late entry, however, would explain that, of all the main LOTR characters, Legolas' character and family background is the least fleshed out. Of all the nine, he is the only one who lacks a story; in fact, I would argue that the friendship between him and Gimli is much more Gimli's story than his because the whole thing began with Gimli's admiration of and allegiance to Galadriel. It's as if he suddenly saw the magnificance of elves.

Of course, I think this is Tolkien's major drop here. I often felt that he was always concerned that if he showcased an elf much at all, the reader's fascination would quickly overshadow the men characters. And not just Aragorn, but also Faramir and Eomer. Personally, I never cared much for the whole Boromir, Denothor, Faramir bit. How come the elven women had to always be smitten with men. How about Eowyn growing fond of Legolas. That would have been a nice twist. Anyway,...I digress.
 
...he knew balin, and didn't mourn on his grave in moria then.
but i bet, he will be involved in the BO5A - he's the girls posterboy of these movies (along with fili)
 
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If I remember correctly, that's not addressed anywhere. Legolas is his only known child.

As for everything else, I have the complete opposite thought pattern to you. Thranduil directly reconciled with the Dwarves after the Battle, and even lay Orcrist (a sword of the Elves) in/on Thorin's tomb. If Legolas had been present at the Battle of the Five Armies, I'm sure his father would have frowned upon Legolas' distrust of Gimli, son of Gloin.

There was a renewed friendship between the Elves and Dwarves after the Quest of Erebor. It doesn't make sense (to me) if Legolas is present, takes place in the battle, and is part of the reconciliation team, for him just to be wary of Gimli in The Lord of the Rings.
 
You know I went looking for this last time but didn't turn up much- what is our evidence for reconciliation with the dwarves and the elves? I might have missed a quote somewhere.

LR
 
tomb evidence enough?

If not, then I can't think of any quotes off the top of my head. Regardless, yes there would still exist some tension between the two races. But certainly, Thranduil would have been much friendly to our Company at the very least. He got a share of the gold, they defeated the Goblins and Wargs, and (indirectly) made Mirkwood (temporarily) a safer place. Pretty selfish if he still detested all Dwarves.
 
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Legolas does not distrust Gimli nearly as much as Gimli distrusts Legolas.

Sure, Legolas shoots some insults back Gimli's way... but it was the son of Gloin who started it all.


Either way, I'd be fine seeing him with Thranduil in the BO5A. Not sure if he should be in Dol Guilder though.
 
i knew, that tauriel will be legos love-interest.
i think they wanted to have a girl for lego, to stop the gay-rumours (i remember pictures with lego and haldir and figwit ;) )
 
I think the Orcrist thing is defiinitely a sign of respect but beyond that I couldn't turn up any quotes which said much about how the two groups felt about each other afterwards. Thranduil is quite chummy with Gandalf and Bilbo on the way home but no mention of interaction with the dwarves.

In FOTR we have the following clues:

"You were less tender to me,' said Glóin with a flash of his eyes as old memories were stirred of his imprisonment in the deep places of the Elven-king's halls. 'Now come!' said Gandalf. `Pray do not interrupt, my good Glóin. That was a regrettable misunderstanding, long set right. If all the grievances that stand between Elves and Dwarves are to be brought up here, we may as well abandon this Council."

So for me it seems quite open to interpretation and not obvious where things sat on a scale of full reconciliation to not actually planning to kill each other any more.

LR
 
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of Legolas but to write him into other sections of the films is just a shameless attempt at a tie in. Which IMO is not really interesting. Just something to make the Legolas fans swoon is all. Not my cup of tea but I was totally cool with a small cameo roll for him.[;)]
 
It can definitely be read in both ways. I wonder if Tolkien's re-write of The Hobbit would have addressed this?
 
Don't recall much mention of an official reconciliation either. But even if there was, peoples can formally/offccially "reconcile" and, as I said, still harbor misgivings, uncertainties, or disapprovals of the other. Legolas' and Gimli's banter in LOTR is simple culture war seemingly passed on to them by previous generations. Surely some are not implying that Legolas's arguments with Gimli are his alone, or even really that hostile at all, as if he carries some personal grudge against dwarves not shared by his people or father, for that matter.

I mean, Celeborn's words to Gimli in Lothlorien are hardly friendly and when he hears about the wakening of the Balrog, all his old mistrust of the dwarves comes back to the point that he rethinks allowing Gimli to pass through his kingdom. It's only Galadriel's admonishments that help him to overcome old disagreements and apologize to his guest. And as for Legolas actually knowing Balin or any of the other dwarves, why would he? One could fight in a battle of TWO armies, let alone five, and not recognize hardly any of the combatants. He and Balin may have been two of thousands to fight the goblins in BOFA, but he's still not a dwarf so other than standing in silence with the others at Balin's tomb, he wouldn't necessarily go with Gimli to pay his last respects; Aragorn was very well known to many dwarves and he didn't go with Gimli. He just told Gimli to hurry up.

I realize that some Legolas 'fan-girls" desperately want more of him. But I too think that some here want much less of him just for that reason alone and are reaching far to justify their displeasure if he shows up, riding shield surfboards or no.
 
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And since Legolas was the son of Thranduil, I'd think that he (Legolas) would've been present at Thorin's funeral. The Elves and the Dwarves must have spoken after the battle to sort out all the gold. Legolas is too important for him not to be present (if indeed he even was there).

Welcome to TORn by the way, raider111. Good topic to start on! [:)]
 
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