Alan Lee Discussion #8 - Architectural Places: Cities, Towns, Buildings

Daughter of Nienna

Daughter of Nienna

Grey Havens
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Lord of the Rings​
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AL Quote: on his architectural designs: "I learned a little about the history of architecture as part of the art history courses I took at school and art college. It was pretty much limited to European architecture, from classical Greece to Le Corbusier. There wasn't a huge amount of detail, but I remember enjoying the classes, which whetted my appetite and encouraged me to look more carefully at buildings and find out more for myself. I was quite excited by neo-gothic and Arts and Crafts architecture, as well as by the older buildings that I had always found fascinating. I had also enjoyed making castles as a child. When I started work as an illustrator I found that it was necessary to study architecture even more seriously, especially as I seemed to be specializing in historical fiction. When illustrating fantasy or the works of Tolkien, that historical background is a useful starting point because the available technology and the properties of different materials have such an important role to play --- but beyond that, it is all made up." — Book Reporter — Interview on December 16, 2005
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BagendSidetop400.jpg

Bag End Side View – from 'Sketchbook', p 21

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Q: Why choose this angle (view point) to show Bag End? In what ways is it effective in communicating the story?
Q: What does this angle do to the composition? How (in what ways) does it compare to some other compositions that we have been discussing . . . like a typical Hildebrandt's composition?
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BagEndGardening400.jpg

Gardening Bag End (my title) – from 'Sketchbook', p 20


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee01.jpg[/image]
Bag End


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee05.jpg[/image]
Tom Bombadil's house

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AL Quote: "I'm reminded of some of our old local folksingers when I think of Tom Bombadil, and so I've put him and Goldberry into a Devonshire longhouse. This isn't one building in particular; it is composed of elements from several houses that I'd sketched separately." — Sketchbook, p28
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Q: Does this image fit what you imagine Tom and Goldberry would live in? How is it similar, how is it different? Does it fit the text?
Comments: I had a hard time picturing Tom's house…having more of a felt-sense of it rathere than an image and that it was more at one with nature in some way. When I first saw this image, I was surprised that it was Tom's, and I envision more trees & vegetation all around.
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[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee14.jpg[/image]
In the Halls of Moria

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AL Quote: on Moria: "While in The Hobbit J.R.R Tolkien's Dwarves are fairly broadly drawn prototypes; their names borrowed from Old Norse poetry and their manners from fairytale, by the time they re-emerge inThe Lord of the Rings they have acquired a venerable and complex history, and Moria, their ancient home, is a lost civilization. I found the whole episode in the book quite terrifying on first reading it, and was reminded of the experience of being in a fairground ghost-house when I was very young‚ in pitch darkness, and imagining vast, echoing spook-filled halls and plunging depths, all in a space about the size of a shed. — I didn't imagine for a minute that Dwarves might live in a scaled-down environment; their love of artifice, and of grand gestures, suggests that they would want to build on an epic, even gigantic scale — and besides, they had a whole mountain to play with." — Sketchbook, p 59
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[image]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/DaughterOfNienna/Alan%20Lee%20Discussion/Moria150.jpg[/image]
Structured framework drawing of Moria — Sketchbook, p 61

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AL Quote: on Architectural Drawings: "Pictures with a major architectural element need a highly structured perspective drawing as a framework. Once that's in place, I can take a more relaxed approach to working on the final watercolour, knowing that there is a strong foundation under pinning it. It can be a little frustrating to go through this process when you're itching to start splashing about in watercolour, but I have a strong memory of this pedantic old man who taught technical drawing in school, and was pretty dismissive of my efforts. I think I'm still trying to prove something to him." — Sketchbook, p 60
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[image]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/DaughterOfNienna/Alan%20Lee%20Discussion/LorienFlet150.jpg[/image]
Lothlórien Flet (my title)

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AL Quote: on Lothlórien: "I don't think I've ever seen any pictures which come close to matching the evocative strength of Tolkien's writing about Lothlórien, including my own. It is not a matter of simply translating his descriptions into pictorial form, because their strength is not so much in the pictures they conjure up the emotion they evoke, and I think these feelings are derived from something quite primordial — a connection with the forest that was broken in the early years of mankind's development; a lost paradise that part of us still yearns for.
This comes through in all of Tolkien's writings about nature, but it seems to take on an extra power in those episodes concerning trees and forests, and Lothlórien in particular becomes not just the heart of the remaining Elven kingdoms, but almost the soul of Middle-earth itself. … everything associated with the elves had that ethereal beauty." — Sketchbook, p70–71
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[image]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/DaughterOfNienna/Alan%20Lee%20Discussion/MeduseldCal2007-150.jpg[/image]
Meduseld — Calendar 2007, (another image of Edoras)

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AL Quote: "When Tolkien described Meduseld, I'm sure that he was also thinking of Heorot, the 'horn-gabled' feast-hall of Hrothar, King of the Geats, in the Anglo–Saxon poem Beowulf. I had done a painting of this for an earlier book, castles, and that became a starting point for designs for the Golden Hall. It is wooden, but I wanted it to be decorated and strengthened by lots of gold and iron work, and assumed that the importance of the horse in Rohan culture would be reflected in the details of the building." — Sketchbook, p 93
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[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee26.jpg[/image]
Orthanc

Text Quote: "…mighty works the Men of Wesernesse had wrought there of old; and Saruman had dwelt there long and had not been idle. . . . there stood a tower of marvelous shape. It was fashioned by the builders of old, …and yet it seemed a thing not made by the craft of men, but riven from the bones of the earth in the ancient torment of the hills. A peak and isle of rock it was, black and gleaming hard: four mighty piers of many-sided stone were welded into one, but near the summit they opened into gaping horns, their pinnacles sharp as the points of spears, keen-edged as knives. Between them was a narrow space, and there upon a floor of polished stone, written…a man might stand five hundred feet above the plain. This was Orthanc, the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had …a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech Orthanc signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old the Cunning Mind. . . . came but from Mordor; …so that what he made…was only a little copy of… Barad-dûr, the Dark Tower…"

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Q: what is your opinion of Lee's Orthanc.
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[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee41.jpg[/image]
Pelennor Fields and Minas Tirith


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee36.jpg[/image]
Within Minas Tirith



Minas Tirith top view


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/minastirith.jpg[/image]
Minas Tirith (interior)


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee31.jpg[/image]
The Ruins of Osgiliath


[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/lee43.jpg[/image]
Tower of Cirith Ungol
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Q: Is this dark and scary enough for you?
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[image]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/thumbs/lee/barad-dur.jpg[/image]
Barad-dur




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On one hand, it seems less original, but then, this was the original: PJ is the copier! [sly]

Lee's architecture is excellent, better I think than most of the other architecture that I have seen in fantasy. Minas Tirith is a little more vertical than just about any city that I know, but then, this is fantasy, and that is characteristic in fantasy: the buildings are usually more spire-like, larger, or at least taller, and even the mountains tend to be steeper. Lee is guilty of this as well with Caradhras, which as I said earlier looks more like a promentory on a mountain peak than a mountain in and of itself. Namche Barwa is among the steepest mountains I know of, and, it's still forty-five degrees or so on the ridges (steeper on the faces), which is on the shallow side of many fantasy mountains:

nbwapeak.jpg


Namche Barwa from the Indian side.

Anyhow, back to buildings - again, Lee has a very good eye for culture and the right mix of familiarity and exoticness. The white of Minas Tirith has a double meaning: first, it is white, the color of good, but it is also monochrome, not full of life, which also characterizes the city very well and establishes the atmosphere.

Bombadil's house looks almost like a photograph: in fact, a house like that in the hills north of the Alps and south of Zürich would have fit in real well once, although modern Switzerland is quite modernized. That is how I envision the house appearing - to Hobbits. I'm sure that Tom and Goldberry could have made their house look like whatever they wanted, though, so it probably looked very different to Elven visitors.
 
...that Tom's house looks diffrent to different visitors. Makes sense and makes me feel better.

Here is an image of some cliffs here in Hawaii...we have some very straight up & down cliffs and very dramatic too . . . especially those on Kaua'i along the Na Pali coast, this image is of one such cliff (there is miles of it). (Pali = cliff in Hawaiian.)

Too bad the top is cropped out of this shot...the best I could do on a quick web search. But this give you an idea. Of course it is not the same as European mountains and these are created and formed by different means. But they sure are awesome.

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/...772&catID=&style=&rowNumber=19&memberID=61882

I love HawaiI [heart]
 
Minas Tirith is wonderful in both style, detail and perspective, familiar enough to betray its references. The study from 1987 is perhaps the best. Still I can’t help feeling that I’d like to see Minas Tirith rather at a distance to accentuate the fantasy element of the city and its importance as a symbol of hope, vigilance and persistance. Lee’s illustration is helpful in underlining more what the city looks like for those living inside it, which is easy to forget, and serves to show Lee’s understanding of the cultural specifics/origins of Tolkien’s world.

Barad-Dûr: Perfect. Suitably ominous and shrouded in mists and let's the reader do the rest of the job of imagining it.

Tower of Cirith Ungol:
It looks too sullen and not suitably threatening, although it looks very realistic and correctly positioned. The painting from the 2007 calendar engages my emotions far more, not only because of the Nazgûl, but because the angles of the different parts of the towers makes it look more scary.

Orthanc:
In my opinion Orthanc looks imposing and inpenetrable, the mighty structures and parts it is made of are made visible and credible. Perhaps Lee’s best architectural piece.

Moria:
My first thoughts on seeing this painting was that everything is correct in this painting, the perspective, the lighting, the proportions etc. and that is perhaps the problem. Moria seems vast, but not vast beyond the wildest rumour or vast and threatening. If I look at the painting for a longer time and allow my mind and gaze to wander into the far left end of the picture my imagination starts doing the job for me.

Tom Bombadil’s house:
This house looks like it’s taken straight from a classic fairy tale motif. It looks peaceful and inviting, but slightly as if it is set in a place beyond time and place. I imagine there’s a symbolic boundary between the Old Forest & Tom Bombadil’s house and therefore I don’t mind not seeing any trees – Tolkien emphasizes the flag stones of his house more than the wood surrounding it anyway.

BTW: Daughter of Nienna, these posts and the work you've put into it is amazing. When I'm not replying to everything it is out of lack of time.
 
Well, first off, slopes look a lot steeper head-on due to foreshortening. Also, and more importantly, you can certainly have pinnicles and crags of smaller mountains, but the rocks just aren't strong enough for really big things.

Namche Barwa is 7782 m in elevation, and is the easternmost major peak in the Himalaya. It is a BIG mountain! Caradhras is a big mountain also, not Himalayan perhaps, but big, but it's at least half that size - and we're talking about orders of magnitude here. A 700 m spire is not the same as a 70 m pinacle, which is also not the same as a 7000 m pyramid, which is what most mountains are when you zoom out to that size.
 
I want to go home!!!!!!!!!! I do not like the mainland!
Once again, Mahalo nui loa for this lovely discussion, I ordered Alan's sketch book on Friday, I had never seen it before you posted all these wonderful pictures here.
Aloha, Karen
Wish I could pick one of these from my garden and give it to you in thanks!
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