3 Questions About Bilbo and Frodo

TheGoblinKing

TheGoblinKing

Rohan
Well I have 2 questions. Is Bilbo the only person to ever willingly give up the ring. I know he has a withdraw episode when sees Frodo. Non the less he does drop it on the Floor because Gandalf asked him too.

Another question I have is did Bilbo take Sting and Mithreal with him or did he leave them at Rivendale in special locker.
I ask this because i would think id notice Sting inside that little back pack when he left bag end.

My last question is would Bilbo had destroyed the Ring or would he had failed like Frodo. I know people say by him keeping Gollum alive he still was successful but my view is the Ring took him over at the end still.
 
Sam was for a very short time a bearer of the ring and gave it back to frodo, but i dont know if people count that as it was for such a short period of time.

Bilbo brought the mithril back as i think it was in a museum in michel delving or i could have that wrong and frodo gave it to the museum after his quest, if the first then i assume bilbo also brought sting back and then traveled with both on his journey to Rivendell after giving up the ring.

I think Bilbo would have failed as he was in possession of the ring for much longer than Frodo and i think he used it many more times than Frodo did. I think Frodo was taken over at the end by the ring but i still view Frodo as successful and a real hero for what he did.
 
Interesting observation about the size of Bilbo's package. Didn't somebody sometimes carry a sword inside their pant leg (might be a different movie I'm thinking of).

As for Frodo failing, if not for Gollum's intervention? From Tolkien's perspective, I wonder if Gollum wasn't meant to be the personification of Frodo's creeping desire for the Ring through-out the tale? Frodo had to overthrow The Ring, and his desire for it (namely Gollum).

Also, there are a number of differences between Frodo's time with the Ring and Bilbo's time with the Ring:

-- For most of the time Bilbo possessed it, no one, not even Gandalf, was telling him it was evil, or that it was the One Ring.
-- as such, no one impressed upon him that he must obtain the quest to destroy it.
-- Sauron was more powerful, the Ring more active during Frodo's time with it compared to when Bilbo had it.
-- Bilbo had a longer, relatively peaceful time becoming acclimatized to the Ring and its power
-- Bilbo stayed far from Mordor where presumably the burden of the Ring became stronger
-- Finally, Bilbo was not infected by a Morgul Blade as Frodo was through most of his time as a Ring Bearer.

Your second question: in the movie (can't remember the book) Boromir gives back the Ring on Caradhras; As imin mentions, Sam gives up the Ring in both versions when it turns out Frodo is alive. Should mention too that Galadriel and Gandalf were both offered the Ring but did not take it.
 
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Bilbo was able to even release the Ring meaning he was giving up the ring mean that either The Ring let him Go or Bilbo was always destined to keep the ring but not actually pocess the ring.
What does it say about Gollum another hobbit Kills his friend so quickly. I think again Frodo awe's Bilbo for much of the success in his journey because Bilbo showed pity first and did not kill Gollum. Which Gandalf was chastising Frodo about wishing Bilbo killed Gollum.

I was always wondering if really the Ring kinda had it own mind and for Some reason it just didn't want Bilbo to die. I am hoping The Hobbit will Show Bilbo is strong and thus his strength was why he let the ring go.

I also think Sam would have destroyed the Ring simply because he had not been in the Rings company so he would not have the problem Frodo had.
I have a question also if you had carried frodo up the mountain and he refused. Would you being Sam Shoved him in.
 
Always the start of a good discussion...

What does it say about Gollum another hobbit Kills his friend so quickly. I think again Frodo awe's Bilbo for much of the success in his journey because Bilbo showed pity first and did not kill Gollum. Which Gandalf was chastising Frodo about wishing Bilbo killed Gollum.
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Very good points about Gollum and Frodo. You are essentially saying that without Gollum, Frodo wouldn't have made it as far as he did. I agree.

I was always wondering if really the Ring kinda had it own mind and for Some reason it just didn't want Bilbo to die. I am hoping The Hobbit will Show Bilbo is strong and thus his strength was why he let the ring go.
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Also a valid point. The way Bilbo played with it all the time (we can assume here) it may have sensed that he would protect it, and perhaps inadvertently some day provide a means of escape. Whereas with Gollum, chances are it would remain lost in whatever dark pit Gollum wedged himself into.

I also think Sam would have destroyed the Ring simply because he had not been in the Rings company so he would not have the problem Frodo had.
I have a question also if you had carried frodo up the mountain and he refused. Would you being Sam Shoved him in.
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This I'm not so sure though I have wondered why Elrond did not do the deed himself when he had Isildur in mount doom all alone, all those centuries ago.
 
If i had done all the Sam did and Frodo basically gives Sam and Aragorn the finger . Surely normal emotion would say Sam should have threw him in. Sorry Mr Frodo.
 
A question better asked is did Gandalf since Frodo may fail and thus kinda figured Gollum my have the extra push to maybe end the ring. The difference between Bilbo and Frodo is Bilbo did what Gandalf said.
If Gandalf had told Bilbo to never put the ring on. He would not have been playing with the Ring. That ofcourse if Bilbo was in Frodos place and had never put on the ring.
 
considering how much Sam is tempted by the Ring in the novels (and it does come across partially in the movies), so I would almost say that he willingly gave up the Ring as much as Bilbo did, but is it as grand? Probably not, on account of how long Bilbo kept it and used it (essentially slaved over it).
 
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I think thats what came down to it. The scenes in Bag End where Bilbo is taken by the ring. Or rather the Ring is wanting to go with Bilbo. Bilbo is scared by seeing Gandalf react from You Want It For Yourself
He never saw Gandalf angry at him and in the end Bilbo did what Gandalf asked of him. I think while Frodo would want to do what Gandalf asked he still is young and I think Frodo maybe didn't think it was that serious until it was too late.
I am saying maybe Bilbo was raised to respect elders more so and its why i think he did what Gandalf usually asked.
 
but despite Gandalf's words Bilbo nearly makes off with it before he is reminded. Really it's a combination of both parties, and ultimately evident that Bilbo is the one that has to make the biggest move of all (not to demeanour Gandalf's help).
 
I did like in the movie that after Bilbo dropped the Ring he was Bilbo outside the house when he said goodbye to Gandalf. I think the episode where Bilbo tries for The Ring was not really Bilbo but The Ring using all its power to make Bilbo take it.
At the end Bilbo got control of himself and said how sorry he was.
Sorry about the burden on Frodo.

I do wish though they would have had Bilbo at the meeting like in the Books. Because he does offer to take the ring . But I am sure Gandalf saw it as a Ring ploy to get back in Bilbos hand
I think that scene would have played well going into After Bilbo gives Sting and Mithrail to Frodo
 
the Ring preferred Bilbo best. It perhaps knew Frodo intended to destroy it and Gollum intended to hide it and himself away in some unreachable cavern. Bilbo on the other hand might have been counted on eventually to lose it (allowing it to be found by an agent of Sauron) as he was most careless with it.

Having said that though, as (was it?) Boromir quipped, it was foolish to send the Ring with Frodo anywhere near Mordor regardless of his intentions because there it might more easily be taken from him. Perhaps the Ring chose Frodo to carry it on what it viewed to be a fool's errand?
 
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This I'm not so sure though I have wondered why Elrond did not do the deed himself when he had Isildur in mount doom all alone, all those centuries ago.

He's not a murderer ? And for all we know Elrond and Isildur might have been close friends...just like Gandalf didn't crack Bilbo's spirit when initially he refuses to let go of the Ring.
 
But on a more serious note, even if Elrond had been able to kill Isildur, it's likely the Ring would have consumed Elrond just the same. Whose to say that Elrond had a greater will than Isildur?
 
Well, I was talking about throwing Isildur into the fire, Ring and all (two birds and all that).

I see what you are saying though. Apart from the reasons for not doing so that xy raises -- and that I agree with -- perhaps Elrond was really saying, "Isildur, throw it into the fire, [because I do not have the will to do it myself]."

There may also be prohibitions against taking certain kinds of acts placed on beings such as Elrond. I know there is on Gandalf. Hopefully someone like Lady FFH will pop in to this discussion to offer a bit more background to all of this.
 
Who knows what strength could have awoken in Isildur if Elrond had tried anything - look at Galadriel and Boromir when tempted by the Ring; and Gollum himself - who went to many extremes to get his precious back.
 
I have been wondering would Gandalf had taken Frodo to Lothlorian. It seems to me gandalf would have known Galadrials well fondness to be tested by the ring. I think he would have not gone there. Also am i wrong in thinking that things seemed to go worse after they were in Lothlorian.
Boromir seemed more pocessed of the ring after Galadrial looked at him and Frodo seemed to not trust anybody afterwords but Gollum.
 
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