|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Helcaraxe
Lindon
Mar 21 2019, 4:00pm
Post #1 of 14
(1942 views)
Shortcut
|
Is there likely to be a prologue like in LOTR movie to set the scene? A two minute overview of the birth of Arda? Maybe a description of the coming of the Valar/Maia and a quick mention of the Enemy, Melkor/Morgoth and his servant, the shape shifting Maiar, Sauron? An overview of the coming of the peoples of Middle Earth and then the battles with Morgoth with the final intervention of the Valar and imprisoning of Morgoth along with a mention of the escape of Sauron. Thus setting out the story to a small degree before the 2nd Age. All academic of course if the Estate did not give permission to even mention any 1st Age happenings! Would look good in a animated overview with scenes of creation, wars and Dagor Dagorath......
"Don't Touch Me!!" - Thomas Covenent
|
|
|
hanne
Menegroth
Mar 21 2019, 4:41pm
Post #2 of 14
(1870 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It`s funny, but I sort of hope not...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Not meaning to be cold-watery - I know this approach worked for the LOTR movie! I just have an odd personal preference for openings in medias res, and learning the backstory as we go along - just as how LOTR (book) opens with the party, and we get to see the Ring in use and its effects before learning what it is.
I totally agree it`s a really interesting question about what story they will choose to tell in the first episode. It has to cover a lot of ground:
*Present the setting in an intriguing way
*Get the audience attached to at least one (preferably more) beloved character they want to follow
*Set up an overarching theme/arc for the season and the series
*Tell a self-contained interesting story that proves the series will be entertaining to watch
*Include an awesome action set piece to showcase the awesomeness to follow in the rest of the series
Your idea that they might choose to portray Sauron's descent through the first age is really interesting!
Here's another idea for that first episode: Isildur's rescue of the White Tree, which would contain lots of action and reveal just how dangerous Sauron's hold on Numenor is. The beloved characters would be Elendil and family, the cool setting would be Numenor. Of course, then we'd know that all the ring forging etc was going to be told in flashbacks.
An earlier starting point, with an Annatar/Celebrimbor plot, might require more invention, I think, to create a self-contained story with action.
|
|
|
Wilros
Lindon
Mar 21 2019, 4:56pm
Post #3 of 14
(1867 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Has to be something I would think
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The background for a 2nd Age story will be very different from what most movie and book fans are familiar with (3rd Age) so I would think they have to cover a bit of background, similar to how the LOTR movies gave us some highlights of the 2nd Age.
I would think the founding of Arda and coming of Valar would be skipped, as well as the Years of the Lamps and Trees, even skipping Feanor and the Silmarils.
It would likely include:
- some part of the Battles of Beleriand to show the struggle between Free Peoples and Melkor
- Earendil's plea to the Valar
- War of Wrath and destruction of Beleriand
- Sauron hiding in Middle-earth
- Founding of Numenor
I think those are the main points to set the stage for a 2nd Age story.
|
|
|
Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Nargothrond
Mar 21 2019, 5:31pm
Post #4 of 14
(1844 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I doubt it'll start after Sauron is already in Numenor
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I would think they would want to start somewhat earlier, maybe during the War of the Elves and Sauron, but while Numenor is still at peace. That way audiences can get attached to Numenor itself and fall in love with the setting, the people, the culture - and watch in real time as it all gets corrupted and destroyed before their eyes as the series progresses.
"We are Kree"
|
|
|
Lightice
Menegroth
Mar 21 2019, 5:57pm
Post #5 of 14
(1838 views)
Shortcut
|
I would think they would want to start somewhat earlier, maybe during the War of the Elves and Sauron, but while Numenor is still at peace. That way audiences can get attached to Numenor itself and fall in love with the setting, the people, the culture - and watch in real time as it all gets corrupted and destroyed before their eyes as the series progresses.
Well, it's been a long time since I visited here, but I figured out a framework a few days back that I would use for the series that I felt like sharing:
Season 1: Starts around 1,200 of the Second Age with the coming of Annatar to Eregion and the establishing of the first Númenorian colonies in Middle-Earth. Ends with the forging of the Rings of Power and Celebrimbor's discovery of Sauron.
Season 2: The War of Elves and Sauron and its direct aftermath. Features disillusionment of many Númenorians and Sauron distributing the Rings of Power to Men and Dwarves.
TIMESKIP
Season 3: Transition to the dystopian Númenor in the late 3,200's S.A -- Elven characters provide continuity, same actors can continue playing the descendants of the previous human protagonists. Deals with the death of Tar-Palantír and the rise of Ar-Pharazôn, and his war against Sauron. Ends with Sauron's surrender.
Season 4: The final corruption and Downfall of Númenor under Sauron's tutelage, and the flight of the Faithful.
Season 5: Establishing of the kingdoms or Arnor and Gondor, and the War of the Last Alliance.
(This post was edited by Lightice on Mar 21 2019, 5:58pm)
|
|
|
Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Nargothrond
Mar 21 2019, 6:09pm
Post #6 of 14
(1832 views)
Shortcut
|
I wonder, though, if Amazon could do that but compress the timeline rather than do a timeskip? The human characters, I think, will probably be the main focus: so humans who can last throughout the entire duration of the show would be a plus. They could start setting up the disillusionment in Season 2, with some of the Numenorean lords joining Sauron and becoming Nazgul.
"We are Kree"
|
|
|
Lightice
Menegroth
Mar 21 2019, 6:41pm
Post #8 of 14
(1811 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'd hope to avoid timeline compression
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I wonder, though, if Amazon could do that but compress the timeline rather than do a timeskip? The human characters, I think, will probably be the main focus: so humans who can last throughout the entire duration of the show would be a plus. They could start setting up the disillusionment in Season 2, with some of the Numenorean lords joining Sauron and becoming Nazgul.
I'm not hugely fond of compressed timelines; they make everything seem rushed, like everything is happening at once, and leave the rest of history empty. I wouldn't necessarily mind smaller timeline compressions within the season framework I set up, but I don't think those are all that necessary, with the extended lifespan of the Númenorians taken into account.
Besides, I'd want this show to feel like historical fiction set in a different universe, rather than a regular fantasy story. And timeskips that change large portions of the cast are far from unheard of in those -- Vikings comes to mind, for instance. It creates a real sense of history and passing of time, a feel that the plot doesn't just happen because writers came up with exciting events, but because it dramatizes something that actually took place a long time ago.
But yeah, birth of the Nazgûl should definitely be one of the plot points. And they could potentially carry on as actual characters, rather than just faceless monsters, even after the timeskip, albeit with much less personal agency. The different motives that the nine individuals had could make up a massive portion of the plot, in by itself -- Tolkien implies in the LotR that some of them had good intentions that allowed them to last longer before the corruption of the Rings took them.
And speaking of which, I feel it would be important to flesh out the people of Middle-Earth, while at it. They bear the brunt of the conflicts between Sauron and the Númenorians, after all, and their perspective should be an invaluable addition to the series, as well.
|
|
|
dormouse
Gondolin
Mar 21 2019, 7:03pm
Post #9 of 14
(1808 views)
Shortcut
|
It seems to me they need something. Rather like Peter Jackson's decision to start Fellowship - even before the prologue - with a black screen and that voice coming out of the darkness, speaking in Elvish. To me that was a stroke of genius. It sent shivers up my spine and it does to this day, every time I watch the films. It's disorientating, and it opens the imagination to what follows far more effectively, I think, than diving straight into the Prologue would have done. The catch is that that has already be done and can't be done again without copying - they'd have to find another way. I hope they can, and I hope it doesn't involve too many words. There's nothing kills a story so quickly as beginning with an narrator explaining things before you see them.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
|
|
|
Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Nargothrond
Mar 21 2019, 9:47pm
Post #10 of 14
(1739 views)
Shortcut
|
I'm not fond of timeskips or compressed timelines, honestly - I don't like getting invested in one group of characters and then jumping to another one without having any time to give the previous group a proper farewell, if that makes sense. Compressed timelines, on the other hand, do take away from the realism, which is something I greatly appreciate in fantasy. But if I had to choose, I would take a compressed timeline: timeskips just aren't my thing.
"We are Kree"
|
|
|
Plurmo
Nargothrond
Mar 25 2019, 12:23am
Post #11 of 14
(1436 views)
Shortcut
|
the narration opening on a black screen in Conan The Barbarian. More than thirty years have gone by and I still like to hear it along with the opening music.
If the narrator is a well known character from the PJ trilogy, even if it has no part in the tale, it might work well.
It could start with... "O for a muse of Secret Fire..."
|
|
|
Lightice
Menegroth
Mar 25 2019, 7:26pm
Post #12 of 14
(1348 views)
Shortcut
|
|
More speculation & possibilities
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I'm not fond of timeskips or compressed timelines, honestly - I don't like getting invested in one group of characters and then jumping to another one without having any time to give the previous group a proper farewell, if that makes sense.
I don't think that it's impossible to give one group of characters the focus they deserve, and then slide into another group in a TV series format. Just make sure that there are no major lingering plot threads left unresolved for them, and give a natural conclusion to their story. Plus, if the first two seasons had a heavy focus on Eregion, like I suggested, then the Elves could have a bigger limelight in those season, and then transfer that focus more smoothly on humans in the latter seasons without completely abandoning the Elven storylines.
It seems to me they need something. Rather like Peter Jackson's decision to start Fellowship - even before the prologue - with a black screen and that voice coming out of the darkness, speaking in Elvish. To me that was a stroke of genius. It sent shivers up my spine and it does to this day, every time I watch the films. It's disorientating, and it opens the imagination to what follows far more effectively, I think, than diving straight into the Prologue would have done. The catch is that that has already be done and can't be done again without copying - they'd have to find another way. I hope they can, and I hope it doesn't involve too many words. There's nothing kills a story so quickly as beginning with an narrator explaining things before you see them.
I gave another couple of days of thought on how I'd do the opening, and I think that taking a loose inspiration from Game of Thrones might be a good option. That is, have a cold opening without context and opening credits that visualize the history of the setting in an abstract manner. Though some narration for the bare bones of the backstory might still be a good idea. This is what I came up with as a possibility:
Start from the perspective of Men of Middle-Earth living in a tribal, Iron Age civilization. Have them witness a fleet of great, almost otherworldly looking ships land to the shores and men dressed entirely in steel armour step to the land and begin cutting the forest and building a fortress on the coast, the whole thing depicted like the landing of a flying saucer before the eyes of some hapless 1950's countryfolk. And then cut into a narration, illustrated with some sophisticated marble carvings and murals:
"Near the end of the Elder Days, all great Elven realms were laid to ruin and the Men were scattered to four winds in the ancient war against Morgoth, the Black Enemy. It was then that Eärendil the Mariner, a child of the Two Kindreds, sailed to the Uttermost West to plead aid to his people before the Valar. The Lords of the West heard his call, and for the last time, the Powers walked the Middle-Earth, and Morgoth was thrown down and cast into the Outer Void. The Men who had fought valiantly alongside the Elves against the Dark Power were granted a deeper sight and longer life than other children of Middle-Earth, and for a new home they were given a blessed isle that laid within sight of the Undying Lands. The Valar named it Andor, the Land of Gift, but the Men called it Westernesse, or in the High-Elven tongue, Númenor."
Then cut back to the original scene, but the perspective flipped to the Númenorean side, and make it clear they're not quite as otherworldly or superhuman as initially portrayed, but have flaws and disagreements on whether it's right for them to just take land without permission.
|
|
|
mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
Mar 31 2019, 11:58am
Post #13 of 14
(1207 views)
Shortcut
|
Still same shivers in me too, now just as then,
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
from this beautiful, slow Elvish voice speaking in the timelessness of the total darkness before the Prologue itself opened on the screen, and made us enter Middle-earth, at the beginning of 'The Fellowship of the Ring'. A stroke of genius, as you say, on the part of Peter Jackson.
Totally mesmerizing all at once. Sucked you right into the far, far past of that forgotten Story that became Legend, which became Myth - a sequence of words that had its own magic as well, by the way.
For me too, those few first seconds have been and remain unforgettable.
Well, it will be very hard to beat that now for the TV series!...
Let's see what they will come up with...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Mar 31 2019, 12:01pm)
|
|
|
Akhnaten
Lindon
Mar 31 2019, 10:46pm
Post #14 of 14
(1173 views)
Shortcut
|
I always imagined a first age series starting off with Eriol washing ashore after being shipwrecked and saved by a mysterious old looking elf who calls himself pengolodh. We’d then have the entire series framed around Pengolodh telling stories and in the end, it would be revealed that Pengolodh was actually Maglor/Daeron/Cirdan/a blue wizard.
|
|
|
|
|
