|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Oct 5, 7:49pm
Post #1 of 19
(8622 views)
Shortcut
|
ThatParkPlace.com article on Rings of Power:
https://thatparkplace.com/amazon-cant-cancel-rings-of-power-without-hefty-financial-kill-fee-to-tolkien-estate/
Bullet points:
$20m kill fee per every unfinished season, offering some explanation for not canceling the show.
Staggering money pit that drains Amazon of other opportunities.
37% of domestic Prime subscribers finished the first season while a 50% completion rate is considered “unspectacular.”
Rings of Power rapidly descending in a catastrophic drop towards Loki, Secret Invasion, Agatha All Along, and Echo levels.
I won't vouch for the credibility of the site, but I consider it as more information to evaluate claims along the way.
I still see most loving praise of Rings of Power as admiring the beauty of the emperor's clothes; wanting to believe. However, Season 3 is the really the first opportunity for the show to change things from viewer feedback since Season 1 and most of Season 2 were written before even airing Season 1. So let's see how it goes. But the article's graph showing the slope of the existing seasons against other failed shows should be alarming with three seasons to continue such a decline.
That said, I still put 90% of the blame on the Tolkien Estate and their dumb fracturing of rights to the mythology. Imagine what the show could have done with full rights.
|
|
|
Junesong
Nargothrond
Oct 6, 5:31pm
Post #2 of 19
(8596 views)
Shortcut
|
Thanks for the update! That's great news. I'm glad the Tolkien estate put that clause in - it would be tragic to see such an ambitious attempt cut short just because a trillion dollar company isn't making profit from it.
Also sounds like enough of us are watching and loving it that they can afford to wait a bit for other fans to join in. Maybe they won't - don't forget, the pursuit of casual fans is not just contending with other shows, and the usual media landscape, they are also competing with the super loud and obnoxious online community who hate the show and want everyone else to wake up and hate it too. The show might always just appeal to a small niche fanbase and that's ok.
As someone who has famously and continually shown contempt for both Amazon and ROP, it was nice and kind of touching to see what sounded like concern in your post. I'm sure no matter how much of a "money pit" ROP ends up being, Amazon will still be able to scrape up some loose change for other opportunities.
Also, I LOVED Loki. If that's an example of a ratings failure then I think it's a very apropo comparison here. Not every excellent piece of art needs to be a huge moneymaker. Sometimes it's nice just to get good work that fans enjoy.
As I've said before - I really really loved Season 2. I thought it was a huge level up from Season 1 and (as you've pointed out a few times) season 3 is our first chance to see the showrunners do some course correction as well. I'm really pumped to see where things go from here.
Anyway - thanks for the really encouraging update! I'm happy to hear we'll likely be getting all 5 seasons regardless of how loud the online complaints become.
Haters gonna hate, after all.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Oct 7, 2:50am
Post #3 of 19
(8574 views)
Shortcut
|
I'm happy to hear we'll likely be getting all 5 seasons regardless of how loud the online complaints become.
You see concern where I meant objective news, but fine. ;)
You should remember, too, that I've consistently posted of having no doubt about Rings of Power running all five seasons - and that with no previous knowledge of any "kill fee." I've known that just as well and immediately as Halbrand was so incredibly obviously Sauron. Well, new writers, new chances... But old showrunners, sooo...
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Oct 7, 2:53am)
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Oct 7, 3:36am
Post #4 of 19
(8568 views)
Shortcut
|
Just stopped by TORN to see if there was any discussion of the bits and pieces about ROP Season 3 that have recently appeared.
Coincidentally, I’m just finishing rewatching both seasons of ROP, because I felt like it. I still really like the first season and love the second. I have quibbles and there are things I would have done differently which is exactly what I feel about Jackson’s films. But overall, IMO, the series doesn’t need any major tweaking. Actually, I’ve always suspected that Poppy’s appearance in Season 2, after the heartfelt farewell at the end Season 1, was a minor tweak.
If ROP is cancelled, I doubt that we’ll see any more TV adaptations of Tolkien for some while. Studios won’t care that the production was “too woke” or about Amazon’s marketing strategies. They’ll just see Tolkien=fail.
The sun yet shines
|
|
|
DwellerInDale
Nargothrond
Oct 7, 4:09am
Post #5 of 19
(8562 views)
Shortcut
|
"ThatParkPlace.com" has, from Day One, been fully biased against ROP, cherry picking everything negative that they can find. This article is typical.
As for the kill fee being the reason why Amazon "can't cancel the show": just do the math. If ROP were to be canceled after Season 3, Amazon would have to pay the Tolkien estate $40 million. Each single episode of ROP costs more than $40 million (Season 1 episodes cost $58 million each). So Amazon would lose $40 million but gain savings of $600-$800 million.
Don't mess with my favorite female elves.
|
|
|
AshNazg
Hithlum
Oct 24, 10:33pm
Post #6 of 19
(5817 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I wonder if they could repurpose seasons 4&5 as a separate project?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
If they are under contract for 5 seasons, and seasons 1-3 have poor ratings - I wonder if they could use season 3 to wrap-up the story, give us an ending…
And then rename Seasons 4&5 as something else, for example: The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age. Thereby fulfilling their contract and getting a chance for a hard reset on a new project.
(The final chapter of The Silmarillion is ‘Of the Rings of Power and The Third Age, so it works well, and if they could squeeze out three seasons for each, then that could be Amazon’s two Middle-earth “trilogies”)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 25, 1:29am
Post #7 of 19
(5788 views)
Shortcut
|
It would be a shame if The Rings of Power didn't at least make it to the Downfall of Númenor (I'm still not sure that the plan it to see the Second Age through to the War of the Last Alliance). I might not like the show's approach much, but I can respect seeing the project through to its end.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Oct 25, 5:21am
Post #8 of 19
(5760 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Rings of Power Is Not Going Away
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It would be a shame if The Rings of Power didn't at least make it to the Downfall of Númenor...
This is non sequitur or maybe an ironic wish within the report topic that a Kill Fee is at least in part responsible for what I've been saying all along despite the not-a-fan that I am: "Rings of Power will run at least its entire 5-season run."
Does no one believe me? Even though I told everyone Halbrand is Sauron and The Stranger is Gandalf from the get-go? Even the fans who want it to go its full run seem doubtful in their hopes, posting various fears of being cancelled.
A Kill Fee supports assurance - not doubt.
Are the strongly implied doubtful wishes that such expressions of hope represent indicative of something? After all, there would be no doubt or reason to cast wishes upon a stronger show. (Though I understand critics are less likely to refrain from such things).
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Oct 25, 5:23am)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 25, 4:53pm
Post #9 of 19
(5629 views)
Shortcut
|
Frankly, you're not good at it. No, I am not wishing for the show's cancellation (though maybe I did hope for that at the conclusion of the first season). What I do want is for The Rings of Power to get better and be at least a bit more faithful to the spirit of Tolkien's legendarium, if not the particulars. I want to feel like I am in Tolkien's Middle-earth, not someone else's pale imitation of it.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 25, 4:54pm)
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Oct 25, 9:36pm
Post #10 of 19
(5573 views)
Shortcut
|
"Wishing for the show's cancellation" is an absolute and much different than what I've written.
What I wrote about is people who do NOT wish for cancellation, but in their expressed hopes, reveal their doubts (despite my assurances).
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Oct 25, 9:36pm)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26, 12:32am
Post #11 of 19
(5535 views)
Shortcut
|
Well, I seem to have over-stepped in my assumptions and for that I apologize. I read too much into your post. Even so, I was not "ironically wishing" for anything.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Oct 26, 3:16am
Post #12 of 19
(5520 views)
Shortcut
|
|
There is a non-zero chance that the Rings of Power will end sooner than the original 5 years
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I put the percentage at approximately 0.00056934%
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Oct 26, 3:50am
Post #13 of 19
(5513 views)
Shortcut
|
Well done. Good, scientific approach.
|
|
|
Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 10, 11:34am
Post #14 of 19
(1661 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I agree. The studio will go all the way
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They won't cancel it. I believe their metrix of viewership is satisfying. More subs to Amazon because of the show.
Perhaps the budget for the two last remaining seasons after 3 will be lower. Save the money for the Last Alliance.
I believe ROP is a show that will grow on people after it's done like the SW prequels.
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 10, 2:51pm
Post #15 of 19
(1638 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Downfall of Numenor as Series Finale
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It's entirely possible that there is no intention of including the War of the Last Alliance. The show could end with the Downfall of Númenor. Do I think this is likely? No, not really; but it wouldn't entirely surprise me either.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
|
|
|
Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 10, 3:44pm
Post #16 of 19
(1633 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Beyond the downfall of Numenor
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They could conclude the show with the downfall of Numenor. But I think they might wrap everything up with a longer season 4 where after Numenor sinking, they jump right away to the Battle of Dagorlad.
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 10, 7:18pm
Post #17 of 19
(1613 views)
Shortcut
|
They could conclude the show with the downfall of Numenor. But I think they might wrap everything up with a longer season 4 where after Numenor sinking, they jump right away to the Battle of Dagorlad. That seems too abrupt; I think you'd want at least a few episodes of set up instead of jumping right into the Battle of Dagorlad. If The Rings of Power really does plan on ending the show after five seasons with the Battle of Dagorlad then we should see the Downfall of Númenor at the end of Season 4.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Nov 10, 8:14pm
Post #18 of 19
(1610 views)
Shortcut
|
They could conclude the show with the downfall of Numenor. But I think they might wrap everything up with a longer season 4 where after Numenor sinking, they jump right away to the Battle of Dagorlad. That seems too abrupt; I think you'd want at least a few episodes of set up instead of jumping right into the Battle of Dagorlad. If The Rings of Power really does plan on ending the show after five seasons with the Battle of Dagorlad then we should see the Downfall of Númenor at the end of Season 4.
Yes. Consider the show's title: Rings of Power. It's not named 'Numenor' or 'Battles of the Second Age.' I would hope they do not do a Star Trek Voyager and abruptly end the show with no denouement or closure of the personal stories.
Of the The Battle of Dagorlad, Google says:
Outcome: Sauron's army was driven back to the Black Gate, and the Alliance went on to lay siege to Mordor. This led to the final defeat of Sauron, but the war continued for seven more years. The battle marked the turning point of the war and the end of the Second Age.
So there's plenty of denouement to consider. They should follow the rings as the titular character(s).
And, by the way, I loved Peter Jackson's endless ending to Return of the King. A bad movie can't end soon enough, but a good movie makes me want to live in it forever, and goodbye is always too soon.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Nov 10, 8:16pm)
|
|
|
Junesong
Nargothrond
Nov 10, 8:56pm
Post #19 of 19
(1605 views)
Shortcut
|
I think they need to keep the rings and ringbearers centered in the story.
Season 2 did an incredible job setting this up. I think the show will get stronger as they zero in on the main storyline (which is the rings and the RING)
Fingers still crossed for all five seasons. The final showdown of Gil Galad, Elendil and Sauron (with an assist from Isildur) is what we're all hoping for. Tolkien's descriptions of that showdown are both amazingly precise and surprisingly vague. So the show has quite a bit of creative freedom there. But I want to see Sauron thrown down.
I think the show should end with the ring sinking down into Anduin and a montage of all the settlements and grand buildings we know to expect from the Third Age.
Bonus points if the last frame of the show ends on the big round door of Bag End.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
|
|
|
|
|
