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Saruman
Nevrast
Feb 22 2023, 4:26am
Post #1 of 11
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To me, Arondir was the only Elf who *felt* like an Elf in the vein of Peter Jackson's vision. The others felt like troubled men, drinking often and playing "who's is bigger" with the dwarfs. Arondir carried himself with grace, logic, and bravery throughout. He really was the only one without any red flags for me.
"I have seen it..."
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 22 2023, 7:56am
Post #2 of 11
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...The others felt like troubled men, drinking often and playing "who's is bigger" with the dwarfs...
Sounds like the sort of deconstruction and humanization of which contemporary writers are so fond. But Peter Jackson, too, had a dwarf talking about what's down his pants. Ugh.
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Junesong
Nargothrond
Feb 22 2023, 12:19pm
Post #3 of 11
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I don't know that I see things the same way.
First of all, I'm one of those people who think "the elves" is where Jackson took one of his biggest swings and misses. Legolas was cool, of course. He's written cool. But the rest of the Elves were all wrong to me. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of those creative meetings. In my opinion, they made the wrong choices at every turn.
The Elves in ROP were one of the things I liked most. I even liked the bristly Galadriel and I'm excited to see the series arc for her. I thought the complexity of the elves and their nuance (I hesitate to use the word "humanity" but lets call it their "fallibility" was refreshing to see. I think a show about the 2nd age should feature complex characters across the map, but I'm glad to see them making an effort with the elves this time.
I don't think I could have taken another Jacksonian version where all the elves moved and talked in slow motion and acted like each day was their first day on the planet.
(But yes, Arondir was awesome.)
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TFP
Menegroth
Feb 22 2023, 1:26pm
Post #4 of 11
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I've not done a complete re-watch-through but in those bits that I have done I've each time been annoyed at least slightly by the ages of the actors used to play Celebrimbor and, especially, Arondir's sub-boss at the watchtower ['Revion'?]. Men who are in their fifties, and look it... I know that aged elves aren't without any textual support [most notably, Ciran is described as "grey and old" in the main LoTR text], but it's a bit of a 'grey' area best IMO left alone.
Anyway, Arondir to me feels more elvish than either of those two.
(This post was edited by TFP on Feb 22 2023, 1:27pm)
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Owlyross
Nargothrond
Feb 23 2023, 9:25am
Post #5 of 11
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The ages don't really bother me at all
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I'd rather see a little diversity in elvish make-up with some more mature, younger, different looking elves rather than a parade of identikit 20something Loreal models.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Feb 23 2023, 8:47pm
Post #6 of 11
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First of all, I'm one of those people who think "the elves" is where Jackson took one of his biggest swings and misses....
I don't think I could have taken another Jacksonian version where all the elves moved and talked in slow motion and acted like each day was their first day on the planet.
(But yes, Arondir was awesome.)
The word that described Jackson's elves to me was "lugubrious". I wanted them to be quick and lithe (as only Legolas was in the movies), with even an occasional hint of tra-la-la-lally, and also a hint of the kind of fire that made Feanor burn up from within and the hubris that made Galadriel come to Middle Earth because she wanted a kingdom to rule. I wanted Elrond to be grave of course, but also "kind as summer", which I didn't see n the movies. RoP matches my reader's vision better (even to Elrond's short hair which matches the first illustration I saw of him on a calendar in my youth.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GNU Terry Pratchett
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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TFP
Menegroth
Feb 24 2023, 11:03am
Post #7 of 11
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....I wanted Elrond to be grave of course, but also "kind as summer", which I didn't see n the movies. RoP matches my reader's vision better (even to Elrond's short hair which matches the first illustration I saw of him on a calendar in my youth.)
I think there you touch on a very general/wide issue with Tolkien adaptations, namely that the quality of the writing is too high for any on-screen depiction to remotely do it justice. Tolkien has two goes at that the Elrond description that you allude to, and knocks it very far out of the park both times.
from LOTR: "Venerable he seemed as a king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength."
from the Hobbit: "He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves and as kind as summer."
good luck to actor trying to pull that one off.
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Archestratie
Nargothrond
Mar 7 2023, 1:38pm
Post #8 of 11
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To me, Arondir was the only Elf who *felt* like an Elf in the vein of Peter Jackson's vision. The others felt like troubled men, drinking often and playing "who's is bigger" with the dwarfs. Arondir carried himself with grace, logic, and bravery throughout. He really was the only one without any red flags for me.
I felt the same way. I could tell the actor really tried to understand the character and its history. I had incredibly low expectations for the TV series, so maybe that plays a part in the way I feel, but honestly, I enjoyed his individual performance as an elf much more than any of the others - especially Galadriel. You could drop Arondir into the PJ movies and he'd fit right in, better than Tauriel, I'd say.
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Mar 7 2023, 5:43pm
Post #9 of 11
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He'd make a better Vulcan.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Mar 7 2023, 5:43pm)
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Mar 13 2023, 3:24pm
Post #10 of 11
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He's my favourite elf in the show
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I've seen Ismael in other stuff and not surprised. He's a damn good actor and also a LOTR fan as well.
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fantasywind
Ossiriand
Jun 18 2023, 8:30am
Post #11 of 11
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Yep....Ismael playing Arondir is as bland as most of the other characters and he would work better as Vulcan :) and add to that the most uninspiring visual design (seriously who though the modern buzz cut would be good idea is beyond me...haha, he just looks like a modern man cosplaying as an elf with exaggerated ears) and seriously other than being diversity hire he doesn't bring anything, no charisma or anything that would make him likeable in my opinion, they try as hard as they might to make him 'look cool' giving him action scenes but it's poorly done and making him the only competent warrior doesn't help when other male characters were neutered or seriously downplayed then it's obvious what the goal was.
Hell...if they cast him to play a young Haradrim warrior, visually it would be still bland but with the same acting and emotional range it wouldn't change much. There's no sense of who he is really, but it's like that for most of the characters of this fanfic. It also doesn't help that they build up this romance with him and yet the actors have no chemistry.
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