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balbo biggins
Nargothrond
Mar 23 2016, 3:42am
Post #1 of 4
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so the hobbit films are saying that all nine nazgul were defeated , captured and placed into tombs in the high fells ? and they are saying that the nazgul were defeated , killed and buried then brought back to life by sauron?
doesnt that go against everything we are told about them in the lotr about being men who were consumed by their rings and permanently entered the the ring world ?
so why in the high fells storyline didnt they take the rings off of them when they were captured or were they given to them after sauron resurrected them, which makes no sense!
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Mar 23 2016, 3:53am
Post #2 of 4
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There is a school of thought that the Rings belonging to the Nazgūl were physically kept by Sauron, at least after they became the Ringwraiths.
Yes, the Hobbit films do seem to suggest that the Nine might have still been living in some sense at the time of the downfall of Angmar. However, that is speculation and might not be what Peter Jackson intended. The Nazgūl might have been magically subdued rather than been 'killed'; and then bound and entombed at the High Fells.
I have suggested that, as in Tolkien's legendarium, the Witch-king might have escaped the fall of Angmar and he and his brethren might have been overcome and entombed many years later. This would fill some of the plot holes introduced by Jackson's alterations as it would leave the Nine free to take Minas Ithil and be present for the fall of the last king of Gondor. And the imprisonment of the Wraiths can mark the start of Elrond's four hundred years of watchful peace.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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dormouse
Gondolin
Mar 23 2016, 9:39am
Post #3 of 4
(956 views)
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...on the surface there does seem to be a discrepancy within the film version of the story between Aragorn's description of the wraiths in Fellowship (as having faded into the wraith world without physical death) and the entombment/ walking-dead Nazgul of The Hobbit.
But look a bit more deeply and I'm not sure that this is so. For starters, even in the book there are aspects of their story which Tolkien left unclear. For example, they faded into the wraith world but still appear to have had some semblance of a physical body, held together by magic - as described when Eowyn and Merry kill the Witchking.
Where does the division come, in that case, between death and life? The entombment in the High Fells was invented for the film, but look closely and you'll see that the body is chained - wouldn't that be a rather unusual way to treat a body that was actually, physically dead?
As for not removing the rings, I think they have that well-covered in the film. The voice-over that goes with the entombment scene says they took Angmar, 'and all that he possessed' and sealed him in the High Fells. I think that's the critical point - and all that he possessed. If the knife was so evil it had to be sealed up with him, how much more evil would the nine rings have been - and would anyone, with any sense, want those rings to be in circulation again, knowing what they could do? So they sealed them away with their bearers in tombs that seemed unbreachable. Makes perfect sense to me!
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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No One in Particular
Menegroth
Mar 23 2016, 1:58pm
Post #4 of 4
(906 views)
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Where does the division come, in that case, between death and life? The entombment in the High Fells was invented for the film, but look closely and you'll see that the body is chained - wouldn't that be a rather unusual way to treat a body that was actually, physically dead?
As for not removing the rings, I think they have that well-covered in the film. The voice-over that goes with the entombment scene says they took Angmar, 'and all that he possessed' and sealed him in the High Fells. I think that's the critical point - and all that he possessed. If the knife was so evil it had to be sealed up with him, how much more evil would the nine rings have been - and would anyone, with any sense, want those rings to be in circulation again, knowing what they could do? So they sealed them away with their bearers in tombs that seemed unbreachable. Makes perfect sense to me!
The chains are most likely a precaution. It was known that the Nine had some pretty awesome dark magical powers, (Witch King! It's right there in the title!) whether they were physically in possession of the rings or not. So, after they were good and dead, they chained the bodies just in case they might decide to get up and go for a walk or something, which indeed they did during the events of The Hobbit (or sometime immediately prior).
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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