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Faramir74
Nevrast
Sep 10 2014, 9:27pm
Post #1 of 5
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One of my favourite and most intriguing subjects is the Nazgul, otherwise known as The Nine or Ringwraiths and in particular their leader, the Witch King of Angmar. I was always interested in their appearances in both the LOTR books & movies, so obviously I was delighted when I discovered they would make an 'appearance' in The Hobbit film(s).
But I have some questions, questions that need answers:
Is there a specific Witch King theme/motif that is identifiable in both LOTR and TH? I have listened (as we all do) to the Complete Recordings from LOTR & AUJ/DOS over and over again trying to find it. I'm sure there is a hint of it in ROTK whilst Gandalf & Pippin are talking in their chamber in Minas Tirith (during the deep breath before the plunge speech). In AUJ it can be found in the White Council scene, albeit a slightly subtler version and also in the Edge of the Wild track in the Complete Recordings soundtrack. And in DOS it really comes to life (excuse the pun) during the High Fells sequence.
But have you also noticed it appears towards the beginning of DOS, specifically in the House of Beorn Extended Version? Do you think Beorn and Gandalf have a discussion about the Nazgul/WK that was omitted from the TE?
I am thoroughly obsessed with this subject and the WK/Nazgul theme is so eerie that I find it very thought provoking.
Looking forward to your answers and opinions. This is my first post, sorry if its a repeat!
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Sep 10 2014, 9:35pm
Post #2 of 5
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I think you are confusing things.
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There are these themes:
The Evil of the Ring (Saruon's Theme)
The Revelation of the Ringwraiths
The Descending Third
The Threat of Mordor
The Mordor Skip-beat
The Mordor Outline
The Footsteps of Doom End-Cap
The Way to Mordor
The Power of Mordor
And the Witch King/Orcs of Mordor Fourth Age theme (the Faramir and Denethor theme suggests this theme)
The Witch King theme appears in LOTR at these points (taken from Magpie's excellent website):
Places this theme is heard in ROTK: -
As the Minas Morgul empties its troops and sends them toward Minas Tirith as Frodo, Sam, and Gollum watch behind nearby rocks. Used in conjunction with the Five Beat Pattern. -
As Faramir says to his father, "You wish now that our places had been exchanged. That I had died and Boromir had lived.", pan flute plays with the three ascending notes of Faramir and Denethor's theme and the Ascension Setting of the Gondor Theme. But it has essentially the same rhythm and note movement as the Witch King theme. Although it is not laid over the Five Beat Pattern, it does seem to alternate between 4/4 and 3/4 measures giving it a bit of an off balance feel. -
After Gandalf dispatches Denethor and assumes command, he orders the troops to greet their guests. "Send these foul beasts into the abyss." The trebuchets are launched while music drawn from the Gondor theme is heard. As the Army of Mordor returns the favor, the Witch King/Orcs of Mordor theme is heard. -
As siege towers are rolled up to the walls of Minas Tirith and Gandalf yells for the archers to aim at the trolls. -
As the Army of Mordor assaults the doors of Minas Tirith with a small battering ram. -
As Grond is brought forth and the troops chant, "Grond! Grond! Grond!". Used in conjunction with the Five Beat Pattern. In this scene, when the focus is on Grond, Sauron's Theme is used. When the focus is on the Orc troops, the Witch King / Orcs of Mordor theme is used. -
As Frodo and Sam, disguised in Orc gear, get caught up in a line of troops moving to the Black Gate. This music combines a melody caught between the Isengard theme and the Witch King / Orcs of Mordor theme along with the Five Beat Pattern and the Threat of Mordor. (EE Scene) -
After, as a distraction, Sam hits Frodo and widespread fighting breaks out in the Orc troop line. As in the scene listed just previous, this music combines a melody caught between the Isengard theme and the Witch King / Orcs of Mordor theme along with the Five Beat Pattern and the Threat of Mordor. (EE Scene)
The Witch King Theme only occurs once in the Hobbit Trilogy so far, in The Edge of the Wild.
(This post was edited by Faleel on Sep 10 2014, 9:43pm)
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Sep 10 2014, 9:37pm
Post #3 of 5
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BTW 2 things:
1: the Hobbit Special Edition soundtracks are not the same as the Complete Recordings.
2: The Edge of the Wild music is the AUJ version of the High Fells music.
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Faramir74
Nevrast
Sep 10 2014, 9:40pm
Post #4 of 5
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...confusing the Witch King theme with The Nine theme/motif? This is definitely different from anything we have heard before, apart from the previous 'subtle' hints I described, and plays out on its own in two separate scenes in DOS: during the House of Beorn (Extended Version) AND the High Fells sequence.
Can anyone else verify this???
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greenbalrog
Nevrast
Sep 10 2014, 9:45pm
Post #5 of 5
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I also find everything about the Nazgul, their nature, fate, appearance, limitations, powers, to be utterly fascinating.
Regarding the hypothetical Beorn and Gandalf discussion in the DOS EE, I remember reading here that it's a strong possibility that we'll see them talk about the Nazgul.
I'd also love to read and watch more about the making of the rings, the distribution of the rings and what not. I'd love to see more about the "younger" Sauron and his role as Morgoth's llieutenant and then acting by himself when he persuaded the Numenoreans to claim Valinor for themselves (the quest for the immortal life), if I'm not mistaken. You know, when Sauron was a physical being with a body.
After LotR and the Hobbit, I think a prequel centered on Sauron, his obsession with controlling Middle Earth, the old alliance and/or the forging of the great rings would be something I would be very interested in watching.
Sorry for rambling here, but this topic excites me deeply.
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