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Kagemusha
Lindon
Oct 16 2015, 7:31pm
Post #1 of 6
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Why didn't Azog...
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Greeting,
I'm curious why Azog, the Commander of Legions, didn't wait until the Elves and Dwarves decimated each other before unleashing his orc armies. Also, why no scouts? When armies move about a countryside scout on both sides track their movements and coordinate with their commanders. Thranduil had no scouts to inform him of Dain? And no scouts informed anyone of Azog's army. Thranduil even ignores Gandalf's warning. These are the sloppiest military tacticians I've ever seen.
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nusilver
Nargothrond
Oct 16 2015, 7:37pm
Post #2 of 6
(634 views)
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Greeting,
I'm curious why Azog, the Commander of Legions, didn't wait until the Elves and Dwarves decimated each other before unleashing his orc armies. Also, why no scouts? When armies move about a countryside scout on both sides track their movements and coordinate with their commanders. Thranduil had no scouts to inform him of Dain? And no scouts informed anyone of Azog's army. Thranduil even ignores Gandalf's warning. These are the sloppiest military tacticians I've ever seen.
i was expecting this to say "why didn't Azog just use the eagles?"
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for."
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 16 2015, 7:52pm
Post #3 of 6
(607 views)
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I don't think that Azog could control the exact moment when the worms broke out of the ridge. When he saw what was happening on the valley floor, he was probably disappointed that it wasn't at least a few minutes later.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 16 2015, 7:53pm)
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miko
Ossiriand
Oct 16 2015, 8:01pm
Post #4 of 6
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In the book, the various sides get their scouting information through animals such as birds; Azog and Bolg might have used bats. Also in the book, Thranduil has spies in Lake-town, as well as birds and beasts reporting to him. The animal messengers were left out of the film, with just the merest suggestion of a raven carrying messages between Thorin and Dain. My guess is that the animal messengers (who can talk) were left out because they were too fantastical for the tone of the films.
In the film, no one (except for Gandalf) knows the movements of Azog's army because Azog's army traveled underground through the tunnels made by the were-worms. In the book, Azog's army's movements are hidden by a storm.
If Azog had waited for either the dwarves or the elves to win, then he would have had to attack the winners, who would presumably move into a better defensive position inside Erebor. It made more sense to attack his foes out in the open, on the plain, not attacking them when they were in an entrenched position.
Azog's battle plan actually went to pieces once Smaug was killed. With Smaug on his side, Azog would have had both the ultimate scout and the ultimate weapon. The film could have used a reaction from Azog when learning about Smaug's death.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 16 2015, 9:27pm
Post #5 of 6
(504 views)
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Omnigeek
Menegroth
Oct 18 2015, 5:12am
Post #6 of 6
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Azog couldn't have used anything, he was dead
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In the book, the various sides get their scouting information through animals such as birds; Azog and Bolg might have used bats. Also in the book, Thranduil has spies in Lake-town, as well as birds and beasts reporting to him. The animal messengers were left out of the film, with just the merest suggestion of a raven carrying messages between Thorin and Dain. My guess is that the animal messengers (who can talk) were left out because they were too fantastical for the tone of the films.
In the book, Azog had died over 100 years before the Quest for Erebor even started. I presumed the goblins of the Misty Mountains used the forest for cover as they marched to the Lonely Mountain but the Elves, Men, and Dwarves were so focused on each other and the dragon-hoard that they just neglected their flanks. Bard didn't really want battle at all, he just wanted Thorin to honor his promise while Thranduil was focused on Thorin and probably never gave a thought to Thorin calling for support. He may well have thought that Thorin was unable to call for additional support since he had such a small company to go after Smaug in the first place.
The animals wouldn't have needed to talk, merely react to what was said to them. The human actors could respond to animal calls or movements. I'm somewhat annoyed that PJ chose to alter Smaug's death and not have Bilbo relay the vulnerable spot to Bard via thrush.
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