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Mattlight
Registered User
Aug 25 2008, 4:34pm
Post #1 of 9
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The Necromancer
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I know there's been plenty of discussion on what movie he'll be in, what he'll look like, etc, but...
What is Sauron up to at this time? Why is he called the Necromancer and what is he doing with his time in Dol Goldur? As a kid reading the Hobbit the name "Necromancer" struck me a frightening without even knowing what it meant, and learning its real meaning actually lessened the impact of the name :D Maybe this is more suited to a discussion of the book itself, but as this could factor into both teh Hobbit and the second movie quite strongly, it's worth discussing. Also, what would Dol Goldur look like? And how does Gandalf sneak in?
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Finduilas101
Rivendell
Aug 25 2008, 5:55pm
Post #2 of 9
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Necromancy means the art of divination through the dead. Therefore, the Necromancer could mean a mage of sorts who works with the dead, perhaps going so far as to bring the dead back to life. With Sauron, this is almost inevitably the case. He takes on a more grotesque rather than powerful role as the Necromancer. As for what he is doing, most certainly he is planning for his re-entry into Mordor, as well as experimenting with new creatures and other necromancy-ish stuff.
As for what Dol Guldor will look like, I suggest, if you can, to take a look at what Dol Goldur looks like in Battle for Middle-Earth II. Although I normally don't set much store by game creations, the Dol Guldor in the game is very impressive and I would like it very much if the movie one looked similar. It is more of a fortress than a tower, with plenty of spikes, walls, gates, and some inner circular buildings.
Looking around Elrond's library...chucking stones in the waterfalls...singing tra-la-la with the elves....yup, life's good in Rivendell.
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Mattlight
Registered User
Aug 25 2008, 10:24pm
Post #3 of 9
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Well, I know what it means, but...
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How does that really fit in with Sauron's grander schemes at the time? It seems like his one goal is to take over ME and to do so he really needs the ring/power in Mordor, not experimenting with the dead in some forest Fortress. That could be a subplot they could flesh out in the movie, but all the same if they made too much of that it seems possible that they would divert too much from the books.
As for his fortress, I kind of envision almost a south american architecture - as he's in a forest, similar to a jungle really. Ziggurats have the potential to really be a creepy architecture, and they could fit in with both the Fortress idea and also reminiscent of human sacrifice and stuff.
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 25 2008, 10:26pm
Post #4 of 9
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I could see Sauron doing all kinds of nasty, scary things with the dead. Any movie that showed this, however, would have to keep it as indirect, as shadowy as possible, however, or the whole thing would collapse into Disneyland dancing skeletons and Casper the Friendly Ghost.
As far as how he earned the title of Necromancer, part of it might have to do with something that Tolkien said, that he taught faithful servants of his how to seize the bodies of the living once they themselves had died, refusing the Call of Mandos, and for this reason attempts to commune with the dead became taboo in Middle Earth--because anyone still sticking around might be one of the Necromancer's gang. Since yet another of Sauron's titles was Lord of Werewolves, because (Tolkien says) he made wargs by trapping "foul spirits" into wolf bodies, this might be another thing that he does with ghosts. Come to think of it, after his fall in battle against Isildur, he might have spent the intervening years in Dol Guldur experimenting with such things so as to re-embody himself. He himself might be the main dead guy that he wants to bring back to some semblance of life!
How I picture him? Not in armor a on the battlefield portrayed in the PJ film, but shluffing around home in a robe, recuperating. A hooded robe, with nothing visible in it except for darkness--and possibly a glimpse of a flaming eye? Bone hands, one of which lacks a finger.
Or maybe not that on the money, but a softer image--not soft as in cuddly, but soft as in oozy, ephemeral, murky, hard to pin down.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on Aug 25 2008, 10:28pm)
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Aug 26 2008, 6:02am
Post #5 of 9
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Sauron had to believe the One Ring was still lost at the time he was driven from Dol Guldur. He didn't know Gollum had found it, so he couldn't try to find it and use it to enhance his power. So he had to find another way to do that.
Oh, and welcome to TORn!
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
(This post was edited by Peredhil lover on Aug 26 2008, 6:03am)
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xy
Rohan
Aug 26 2008, 8:43am
Post #6 of 9
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the original Army of the Dead ;-)
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I'm interested in seeing how they do this character, I'm hoping to see the White Council/Necromancer showdown in the pits of Dol Guldur.
I presume Necromancer is Sauron's first attempt at having a physical shape after Numenor. Hooded festering/rotting creature doing corrupt magic (Dol Guldur = Hill of Sorcery)... Black Riders meet Harry Potter's Dementor only more gruesome ergo more terrifying.
(This post was edited by xy on Aug 26 2008, 8:47am)
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 26 2008, 2:35pm
Post #7 of 9
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... we do see Sauron the Necromancer as a visible shape with four fingers, at least in Film 2. It seems like it could make way to then show him take up the Black Throne in Barad-dur and "declare himself" by channeling his will into an all-seeing Eye. It also means that it fits in with PJ/Fran/Philippa's concept of "just because we didn't show it doesn't mean it didn't happen". As in, just because in LOTR you only saw a flaming eye does not mean Sauron did not have physical shape. And yeah, I know there's going to be someone who says "But Saruman said that Sauron cannot yet take physical shape"  I've already reconciled myself to the fact that he said that in pride, deeming that whatever form Sauron had without the Ring, it was unworthy of even being called a "physical form". Who knows though... 
Crows and Gibbets! What is The House Of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll around on the floor with their dogs! You are but a lesser son of greater Sires.
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debo
Rohan
Aug 26 2008, 10:00pm
Post #8 of 9
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I think the Necromancer could be gathering The Nine to himself, because they are dead aren't they.
"Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die" They had been champions of Gondor who fell for Sauron's lies. They have been dead for ages so perhaps Sauron is getting them fit to help him in his quest for world domination!!
I'd say it will be pretty creepy!!!
Frodo; "What I chiefly need now is courage . . ."
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Elemmírë
Registered User
Aug 27 2008, 4:14pm
Post #9 of 9
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... They have been dead for ages so perhaps Sauron is getting them fit to help him in his quest for world domination!!
I'd say it will be pretty creepy!!!
Good point. One would think that a large part of his necromantic dark arts centered on making his Wraiths', and his own, powers stronger. I believe The Nine had already returned (about 1600 years prior), gathered in Mordor under the Witch King, took over Minas Ithil and caused all kinds of nasty mayhem by the time of the battle that ousts Sauron from Mirkwood.
So it will be so interesting to see how much back story they reveal about how it all came about.  Very creepy!!!
There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more,
From these our interviews, in which I steal
From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne'er express, yet cannot all conceal.
~George Gordon, Lord Byron~
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