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Lammen Gorthaur
Lindon
Dec 13 2015, 12:39am
Post #1 of 16
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The Morgul Blade
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In the audio commentary on the Hobbit 1 SE, Peter Jackson says during the White Council meeting in Rivendell, when Gandalf presents the Morgul blade he got from Radagast, that it is the same blade with which the Witchking stabs Frodo on Weathertop, and that it will be revealed in a later film how the Witchking gets it back. Now, I have watched the scene in Hobbit 2 where Gandalf goes to Dol Guldur, and he does not seem to have it with him then, and neither in film 3. Also, neither Galadriel, Elrond, Saruman or Radagast seem to have the blade with them in film 3, and it is not mentioned again in any dialogue in any of the movies after the Rivendell meeting. Was it forgotten by the producers, or did I miss something?
(This post was edited by Lammen Gorthaur on Dec 13 2015, 12:44am)
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 13 2015, 12:43am
Post #2 of 16
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BOFA commentary answered this. Gandalf did have it on him when he went into DG. They did film a "frisking" scene where the orcs take it and his other weapons from him after Sauron beats him. I guess that little scene just looked weird or silly or something when they got to editing.
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Smaug the iron
Mithlond
Dec 13 2015, 12:44am
Post #3 of 16
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They do talk about it on the commentary in TBOFA.
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There was a scene with it but it was cut or possible not filmed. But they said that Gandalf had it with him to Dol Guldur and was taken from him when he was captured.
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Dcole4
Nargothrond
Dec 13 2015, 12:45am
Post #4 of 16
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It was meant to be in BOTFA I believe. In the original two film version the scenes in the cage where Gandalf watches the orc army marching out and the scene where the orc goes to cut the ring from his hand, were part of the same movie and were much closer together. There was a frisking sequence, either before Gandalf was put in the cage or during the aforementioned "ring cutting" scene. There was a lot in DG after the Gandalf vs. Sauron scene that never made any of the films in any capacity. An entire subplot with Beorn and Radagast was dropped. And this "frisking" scene where the orcs take back the morgul blade, also never made it.
Why? PJ obviously was much more conservative this go around putting stuff back in. I think it's in anticipation of a super box set down the line. It's not a necessary part of the storytelling, and therefore can stand to remain cut. But I think we'll see this in the future as part of a six-film box set. The guy who directed the appendices recently said they've been saving a lot of extras and deleted scenes for a future release since they know WB is going to re-release the films anyways, they might as well make them worth while for fans to re-purchase.
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 13 2015, 12:55am
Post #5 of 16
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Pellerin (the director of the appendices) really said that? Huh, I suppose WB would be doing something like their Harry Potter Ultimate Editions for the Middle Earth movies.
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Lammen Gorthaur
Lindon
Dec 13 2015, 12:56am
Post #6 of 16
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You say BoFA commentary, but Gandalf was captured in DG in DoS. Did they take it when he was put in the gibbet, or later, during the scene in BoFA, where the Orc tries to 'remove' his Ring? and is that the scene where the producers tell the orcs took the blade?
BTW, that scene where the Orc tries to take Gandalf's Ring does create a problem. He says something like 'You have something my Master wants' but it is established lore that Sauron never knew who had the three Elven Rings.
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 13 2015, 1:03am
Post #7 of 16
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I don't think they said in the commentary exactly where the frisking scene was, just that it was filmed.
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Lammen Gorthaur
Lindon
Dec 13 2015, 1:07am
Post #8 of 16
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Yes, PJ also mentioned a 6 film Middle Earth box during his commentary on AUJ, when Bilbo finds the Ring. He said he considers replacing Ian Holm with Martin Freeman in the prologue sequence of FotR, but only as an alternate version, not a permanent replacement, as George Lucas did with Annakin at the end of SWEP 6.
(This post was edited by Lammen Gorthaur on Dec 13 2015, 1:08am)
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Toukol
Nevrast
Dec 13 2015, 8:40pm
Post #9 of 16
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Since when have the movies followed established lore?
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Toukol
Nevrast
Dec 16 2015, 3:12am
Post #11 of 16
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deviates from established lore in almost every respect possible.
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Imladris18
Menegroth
Dec 16 2015, 3:10pm
Post #12 of 16
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Just because some details are different does not mean that they went rogue and made literally everything different.
The core story of the Hobbit is very much there.
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Toukol
Nevrast
Dec 16 2015, 5:41pm
Post #13 of 16
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Of course the larger core story is there...
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Never said it wasn't. Don't get sand in your crotch about it.
The "since when..." comment was made in reply to the "scene where the Orc tries to take Gandalf's Ring does create a problem with established lore". Lore is the body of knowledge about a particular subject, and the film makers deviated from just about every element of established lore like that in the movies. Wildly deviated in many cases - such as Azog being alive in this timeline, including Legolas, creating characters that do not exist in the lore, changing what the characters who did exist do in the story, removing all of the talking animals that were integral to the original lore and altering the story to make the same plot points work without them, changing how the battle of the Five Armies played out, making the Black Arrow into a giant spear...or adding a scene with one of Sauron's Orcs trying to take Gandalf's ring when Tolkien stated Sauron was not aware who had the Rings at this time, and on, and on, and on...
Here is a whole website listing hundreds of deviations from established lore.
http://www.theonering.com/complete-list-of-film-changesq
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Imladris18
Menegroth
Dec 17 2015, 3:11pm
Post #14 of 16
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I'd call many of those on that site minor, knitpicky details.
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Not wildly deviating from the lore.
The ones you've mentioned are definitely lore deviations, but to say that they deviated on almost everything is pretty silly in my opinion. If you compiled a list of everything that is 'correct' in the movies, I'm sure it would be longer.
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 17 2015, 4:14pm
Post #15 of 16
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"the contract is longer than in the book" "Bilbo borrowed Dwalin's green cloak in the book"...
I do "love" how most of the cons are just "Tolkien didn't write it/describe it exactly this way, meaning the screenwriters had to invent dialogue and action and modify visual elements." Oh, you mean doing their job of adaptively writing it for the screen? 
Though it is kinda too bad they didn't finish their DOS and BOFA list 
Lore changes to me means the major world/story changes. But... like with any adaptation of books I've read and seen, as long as it works for the movie, I've got little problem with it.
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NManfredi
Ossiriand
Dec 17 2015, 7:57pm
Post #16 of 16
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Does Gandalf have any sort of power due to the fact that he is a Maia, or does he not? Because we saw Gandalf defending himself against Sauron's power in DOS, creating a barrier of light. And if we assume that such power could only be made possible due to the power of one of the 19, and counting the fact that Sauron has found the last of the Seven Dwarf Rings, then it's simple math to think that gandalf has one of the Three.
"Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing? So small a thing! And I have seen it only for an instant in the house of Elrond! Could I not have a sight of it again?"
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