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Ringtir
Ossiriand
Oct 25 2015, 3:02am
Post #1 of 31
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Silmarilion hints
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Peter Jackson makes various references of The Hobbit in the LOTR trilogy, maybe at that point he wasnīt expecting to make this new trilogy, but the hints are in there.
The map of Erebor, the tale of the three trolls, the "riddles in the dark" mention, Sting...
In the Hobbit trilogy we can find some "hidden" messages of the possibly uncoming of the Silmarillion by Peter Jackson, which is not a bad thing, not bad at all.
the spiders, aka Spawn from Ungoliant (by Radagast)
Sauron, server of Morgoth (by Galadriel)
Orcrist and Glamdring, made in Gondolin (by Gandalf)
The sad story of Thranduil and the mother of Legolas, imprisoned and dead in Gundabad, it remembers me the mood of the Silmarillion.
I donīt remember others hints, but it seems that Jackson is waiting for the oportunity to make another ME trilogy
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
Oct 25 2015, 3:25am
Post #2 of 31
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When the rights become available (granting it's in his lifetime)
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I would honestly only be worried about the results if anyone other than P.J. took up the reigns.
I wasn't looking forward to LotR and Fellowship had me enraptured. Something was a tad off about the TE of Two Towers, and I was worried the magic was already wearing off. Then, the extended edition made me a believer in this filmmaker's abilities to do this kind of a grand and beautiful thing for the long-haul. I was expecting great things from RotK and it d***ed well met them all and, in many cases, exceeded them. When The Hobbit was announced, I was largely skeptical (partially because of the passage of time, but mostly because of King Kong - to this day the only film directed by Jackson that I believe would immediately get better if an hour was cut off its runtime, though this kind of thing is said of The Hobbit trilogy). Then, of course, it became a trilogy and I was convinced it would fail; wanted little to do with it beyond curiosity. Then the mini-miracle that is AUJ opened and I was taken right back into his vision of this world again. The TE of DoS brought about very much so the disappointment I had associated with the second of the original film's trilogy - and then the EE corrected all once again. I was not worried about BotFA whatsoever because of all of the aforementioned and it did not disappoint me, though left some storytelling gaps wide open (but... you know... there was always going to be an EE). And the extended cut is wonderful.
If it ever can happen, I hope it is Jackson filming the material. He is a natural in this film universe.
"You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, f*** it."
- The Grand Budapest Hotel
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Withywindle
Nevrast
Oct 25 2015, 4:17am
Post #3 of 31
(1350 views)
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Peter Jackson makes various references of The Hobbit in the LOTR trilogy, maybe at that point he wasnīt expecting to make this new trilogy, but the hints are in there.
The map of Erebor, the tale of the three trolls, the "riddles in the dark" mention, Sting...
In the Hobbit trilogy we can find some "hidden" messages of the possibly uncoming of the Silmarillion by Peter Jackson, which is not a bad thing, not bad at all.
the spiders, aka Spawn from Ungoliant (by Radagast)
Sauron, server of Morgoth (by Galadriel)
Orcrist and Glamdring, made in Gondolin (by Gandalf)
The sad story of Thranduil and the mother of Legolas, imprisoned and dead in Gundabad, it remembers me the mood of the Silmarillion.
I donīt remember others hints, but it seems that Jackson is waiting for the oportunity to make another ME trilogy
I really do not think that we will see The Silmarilion from PJ. I doubt that Christopher Tolkien would give the rights to PJ. Christopher did not like PJ's middle-earth movies. The only other chance that PJ would have is to wait until the copyright expires. The Silmarillion does not become public domain until at least 2043 I think. It may be even longer. Maybe someone with more knowledge on copyrights could correct me if I'm wrong. PJ would be very old. Now it's not impossible that he would make it, but highly improbable. (Also I don't really think that the Silmarillion could work as a trilogy IMO)
"'... The Withywindle valley is said to be queerest part of the whole wood- the centre from which all the queerness comes, as it were.'" -Merry, The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter VI, The Old Forest
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lonelymountainhermit
Menegroth
Oct 25 2015, 2:56pm
Post #4 of 31
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The Silmarillion is too deep a story for PJ...he should be limited to Superheroes and Transformers from now on.
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AshNazg
Hithlum
Oct 25 2015, 6:04pm
Post #5 of 31
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I don't think he could even do a superhero movie...
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He needs to make a Bad Taste sequel or an original film. Don't let him ruin any more people's work.
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Oct 25 2015, 7:03pm
Post #6 of 31
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I imagine Peter Lucas won't be allowed near Middle-earth again for a while.
* crunch *
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 25 2015, 7:23pm
Post #7 of 31
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Had turned out to be very good and with hearth. More than any star wars prequels or even in par with star wars origunals
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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AshNazg
Hithlum
Oct 25 2015, 7:44pm
Post #8 of 31
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Is it really fair to compare to possibly the biggest movie franchise of all time?
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The popularity and hype of Star Wars at the moment vastly surpasses the attention that The Hobbit, or even The Return of the King had. There's no way The Hobbit is even close to the Star Wars movies in that sense.
In terms of quality over popularity... Still no. The Hobbit is on a par, maybe with Episode Three (the best of the three prequels). But it doesn't touch the originals.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Oct 25 2015, 7:44pm)
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lonelymountainhermit
Menegroth
Oct 25 2015, 9:18pm
Post #9 of 31
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Even something as stupid as transformers doesn't deserve the kind of treatment PJ gave to the hobbit. Going back to his roots and doing an over the top comedy horror would probably be his best move. Either that, or tv adverts for preparation h
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 25 2015, 9:55pm
Post #10 of 31
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I was talking about the scripts
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in terms of having heart and those personal moments like Bilbo adressing to the dwarves at the end of AUJ or in the Carrock with Thorin. Ii didnt find that in star wars prequels except perhaps with Anakins mother being left in Tatooine
star wars were more popular than LOTR or at least on par, but I think in terms on having heart LOTR movies surpase by far star wars
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Dcole4
Nargothrond
Oct 26 2015, 12:11am
Post #11 of 31
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I love PJ when he's focused on drama, he is so good at direction character moments. So many scenes in this series could have fallen flat like the Star Wars prequels, but his talent for orchestrating character interaction has elevated these films. His sensibilities for action unfortunately has deteriorated immensely. He's incredible at picking out designs but his gauge for sensing when things have gone "too far" has broken. It started in King Kong and has only gradually gotten worse with these films. I think the Legolas stuff in BOTFA is his all-time low.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 26 2015, 10:00am
Post #12 of 31
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I think on drama he is no discussion good, and has his own flavour to it. But I think in this area Fran Walsh and Philipaīs scripts and sensibility have something to do.
HOwever in this movies somehow I have no grip on the action scenes I quite enjoy them. I feel like when youare eating a lot and get rid of your trousers buttons to let your belly flow hahahaha really chariot and barrels are things I enjoy always, also Bolg and Legolas in BOTFA (not so in DOS I dont know why) nor Dragon seek and hide with the dwarves, but I hitnk is because those sequences are not planned at all XD
The barrel sequence its superb for me, and the chariot oh my!
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 10:35am
Post #13 of 31
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Bringing examples of hype contribute nothing noteworthy to the discussion because everything lies upon personal opinions. I was never a big fan of SW, but i liked them very much especially the originals.That said, i vastly and overwhelmingly prefer the Hobbit films over any SW ones,prequels and originals. I respect your opinion about Hobbit being on par with the below mediocre Episode 3 but the wooden and atrocious acting, the endlessy bad dialogues,the super fake visual effects and the total absence of heart and emotion cannot even be compared, not in the slightest, with the Hobbit in my humble opinion. Personal opinions is what matter the most. Everything else is for the typical internet consumption plus the fallacy that when brining examples of hype or popularity makes up for a more valid and solid argumentation.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Oct 26 2015, 10:39am)
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 10:45am
Post #14 of 31
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I love Jackson when he is focused on drama
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but when he is focused on the bad soap operaish melodrama sequences like the ROTK, he is not good at all in my opinion. Fortunately, this nightmare scenario was not repeated in the end of the Hobbit, giving us the most grim of an ending of all of these movies. This sense of sorrow and grief and emptiness that feels very real, in fact the simple image of Bilbo looking around empty Bag End was incredibly powerful. The ending in Bag End, with the fact that it is all empty and nothing like the cozy home he left behind makes it all the more real. It was nothing like what Bilbo must have thought of and what he missed while he was away. There was no armchair, no books. It greatly emphasised the feeling of loss and loneliness. There is no joy of winning the battle - in fact it almost doesn't matter if the battle was lost or won, it left a permanent mark of Bilbo through the death of Thorin and others.
I sincerely thank him for not incorporating more ending dramatic sequences. In my opinion of course
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Oct 26 2015, 10:46am)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26 2015, 3:14pm
Post #15 of 31
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I sincerely thank him for not incorporating more ending dramatic sequences. In my opinion of course
From everything I am reading about the video Appendices, an argument can be made that there should be a special director's cut of TH:BotFA incorporating some of the footage that remains omitted from the extended edition. I'm not so certain that the acorn scene is needed, but there are other bits of business and exchanges of dialogue that should have been added. The exchange between Gandalf and Thranduil about the Gems of Lasgalen and Legolas is a good example.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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LSF
Mithlond
Oct 26 2015, 3:33pm
Post #16 of 31
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I didn't find the ROTK ending too soap opera or badly melodramatic. I'm curious what about it makes you think that?
As for BOFA drama, I wonder what they had in mind and probably filmed for Bofur drama, since they said in the DOS commentary that he needed to see the Laketown destruction and that he would come into his own in relation to that. I don't think the wall conversation with Bilbo was it, since that wasn't directly related to Laketown. Was he to join in with Kili in protesting against Thorin? Lead a conversation with the others over what to do about it?
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 5:08pm
Post #17 of 31
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1)The repetetive crying but full of empty expressions of the 4 hobbits especially of our protagonist Frodo Baggins who has the same facial expression in every scene. Really bad and cheesy acting imo all over, a level of acting that is equivalent to the soap opera TV shows. Aragorn's lines after the wedding,the watery eyes of Elrond,the bad presence of Arwen(in terms of facial expressions,body language, and the way she hugs Aragorn omg) and in general every scene the 4 Hobbits were present.
2)The cheesy scene with the reunion of the Fellowship. The direction and the images of the Fellowship members looked like a runway of cheesy looking models. Not to mention the glance of lust by Samwise Gamgee towards Frodo and the same empty and vacant expression of Elijah Wood.Horrible in my opinion.
3)The cheesy instrumental themes blatantly intervening in every scene of the ending, constantly dictating emotions by force to the audience. If it was only one scene, i could easily forgive and forget it. But it was intrusive everywhere. A basic characteristic of the soap opera TV shows.
4)Well, "i am back". Back from where? the Grey Havens? How long had it passed since you returned from there? I saw you coming back almost 10-15 minutes ago along with the Hobbits on horses and in the meantime you got married and had children as well. Fake drama and redemption all over. Another characteristic of the soap opera TV shows. That is what happens when you try to incorporate so many sequences from the book but the book has a more natural flow of these events,they are not the one after the other without them being forced. In the film, Jackson tried to unite all these in subsequent sequences and failed tremendously. They totally felt out of place.
I managed to positively differentiate only two scenes during the almost 30 minutes endings which i thought were excellent. The whole sequence of Aragorn singing and the sequence of Frodo explaining to Sam about the wound of the Morgul blade that has never been actually healed plus the mini sequence of old Bilbo and Frodo in the cart. Everything else was so wrong and anticlimactic imo.
For these reasons above, i dislike the ending of the ROTK and i stated my own opinion of why i thought they had a soap opera and fake melodrama vibe on it.
I repeat that it is only my opinion and i know many people that would instantly disagree with me but i happen to know many who thought the same, more or less, about the last 30 minutes of ROTK.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26 2015, 6:05pm
Post #18 of 31
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4)Well, "i am back". Back from where? the Grey Havens? How long had it passed since you returned from there? I saw you coming back almost 10-15 minutes ago along with the Hobbits on horses and in the meantime you got married and had children as well. Fake drama and redemption all over.
I know that it did not seem like it on-screen, but it took Frodo and Sam eight days to reach the Grey Havens. The return journey for Sam probably took just as long. Even if we shorten it a bit, that's still between one week and a fortnight. There is nothing artificial about Sam's line (which, btw, comes directly from Tolkien). Although I do wonder why Jackson did not have Sam and Rosie move into Bag End as they did in the book.
I disagree with you on other points as well, but I'll leave it at that.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 26 2015, 6:06pm)
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 6:09pm
Post #19 of 31
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The exchange between Gandalf and Thranduil
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would not take place during the ending and i would pretty much like to see it. I consider ending, everything that happens after the completion of the battle and the death of Thorin.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 6:12pm
Post #20 of 31
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it did not seem like it on screen, but Sam said "I am back" no matter what. I know perfectly well that the book ended that way, but we are talking about the film now.In the film canon, it felt artificial,fake, and forced to me for the plain reason that we saw him coming back 10 minutes ago. That line would perfectly fit then and not in the end.
P.S. I leave aside the "nonsensical" as it may lead to fruitless juxtaposition
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Oct 26 2015, 6:14pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26 2015, 6:13pm
Post #21 of 31
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Who cares if the scene is at the ending or not? I'm just stating that it should have been included, not where it should have been placed.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26 2015, 6:15pm
Post #22 of 31
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...we are talking about the film now.In the film canon, it felt artificial,fake, and forced to me for the plain reason that we saw him coming back 10 minutes ago. That line would perfectly fit then and not in the end.
I still disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion. Fair?
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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NecromancerRising
Hithlum
Oct 26 2015, 6:15pm
Post #23 of 31
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It could have been included, but
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it was included in the wrong spot of the film. In the book, it made perfectly sense that's what i am saying. Not sure why we disagree.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 26 2015, 6:19pm
Post #25 of 31
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The conversation between Gandalf and Thranduil about the gems and Legolas and Thrandui's deceased wife never took place in the book (how could it?). Just what conversation are you referring to? Because I have no idea what you are on about.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 26 2015, 6:24pm)
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