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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea
May 7 2008, 2:24am
Post #1 of 22
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Rivendell in The Hobbit
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I have been reading The Hobbit again, and I was reading the chapter in Rivendell.
When watching Rivendell in the trilogy, the autumn colours are evident, and the Elven chanting is nostalgic, ominous, and a little bit melancholic. Leaves fall from trees, and the pathways of the city are covered with them.
When reading The Hobbit, you can see joyful, playful, silly Elves, clearly from better times. Tolkien also mentions they are always singing, and even says, with great emotion, he wished could tell us the stories they sang about.
So, transport this to the movies. It is likely Rivendell will be rescored to some degree, for more cheerful chants, trees will be greener, it will be more populated. It will certainly show another colour.
What do you think? What will the key differences be, in order to show The Hobbit's Rivendell, as opposed to Lord of the Rings' Imladris?
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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jtarkey
Rohan
May 7 2008, 2:30am
Post #2 of 22
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Personally, the only changes I would like to see would be some greener trees, and more population. I Love the Hobbit but I do think some things are obviously out of place with it in connection to LOTR. The Elves should be the same types of Elves we saw in the LOTR trilogy, except they could be more inviting and hospitable rather than being sad and quiet. Leave the singing out completley.
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Owain
Tol Eressea
May 7 2008, 2:39am
Post #3 of 22
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Nice one...
This is a great way to contrast The Hobbit from LOTR.
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Empedocles
Rivendell
May 7 2008, 2:45am
Post #4 of 22
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Well, it'll be cool if they do it a little bit more cheerful so it looks different than the LOTR's Rivendell. Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves actually get there in summer, if I rembember correctly, so it'll make sense if we get a more green, summer-looking Rivendell.
Maybe Elrond could smile, at least once, and not look so grim as in the Fellowship. It'll be great if at first Imladris is sort of a happy place, reflecting the fact that the threat is still far away and uncertain and maybe in the second movie we can get a glimpse of how that rising menace starts reflecting on the city itself. I don't want to see tralalalalling elves though, I'm ok with them being cheerful but not over the top. I have no doubt that Howard Shore can come up with some cheerful but still ellegant elvish melodies.
However, I think it'll ultimately depend on the tone they want to give to the movie. Things start getting serious after they leave Imladris so maybe we could get to see a more lighthearted Rivendell.
Please, give us back Glorfindel!!!
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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea
May 7 2008, 3:00am
Post #5 of 22
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However, in Fellowship, are always singing, and it would seem fit that they did the same in The Hobbit, albeit, in a cheerful, yet elegant way, as you accurately point out.
I was thinking along the same lines you did. We need cheerful, yet ethereal tunes. No tra-la-la!
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea
May 7 2008, 4:22am
Post #6 of 22
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Yes, more tra-la-la-ing please!
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Think madrigals. Use enough counterpoint and "tra-la-la" starts to sound profound. If you're not familiar with madrigals, go listen to some samples. Here's a King's Singers album.
Let the toe-tapping commence.
Where's Frodo?
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Kelvarhin
Half-elven
May 7 2008, 6:51am
Post #7 of 22
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always makes me think of irish jigs, really don't see the elves that way 
There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay
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Elven
Valinor
May 7 2008, 7:58am
Post #8 of 22
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Rivendell - opportunity knocks ...
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Well Tolkien might not have time to tell us about Elves, but maybe Guillermo, PJ, Fran and Phillipa can and maybe Rivendel could be used as a point of catching up on some of the Elvish and lots of other detail which might span through the Movies I & II.
Tolkien narrated this piece in the Hobbit ...
"Now it is a stange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable palpitating. and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway. They stayed long in that good house, 14 days at least, and they found it hard to leave. Bilbo would have gladly have stopped there forever and ever - even supposing a wish would have taken him back to his hobbit-hole without trouble. Yet there is little to tell about their stay".
This piece of writing by Tolkien might be a god-send to the movie makers - because its very tempting and very inviting to slot something into that '2 weeks' time period (besides the singing elves) and also provide a sound base for the importance of Rivendell, Elrond, Arwen ... whatever the movie creators like - so it can start building the story a little more, and first timers to 'Tolkiens world' can see how Rivendell it is connected through-out the movies.
But 2 weeks of singing elves!! Maybe not, but maybe we'll be privy to some maps and history, runes and calligraphy, Elvish history, Middle-Earth history, some scenic shots, Aragorn-Arwen history, the library (it would be great if they could make Daniel Reeves telescope or his astrology reference model in there somehow  ) a few of the tales and the songs, and food, merriment and good cheer.
Rivendell would be a great place to start the other stories rolling!
Thanks Compa
Cheers Elven
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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leo
Rohan
May 7 2008, 10:03am
Post #9 of 22
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I would like it to be more of a house
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Call me a silly git, but I thought Rivendell in LOTR was too much of a collection of little buildings that you see in a park, and not enough the last homely home that Tolkien made it out to be in The Hobbit. In my memory and maybe more in my imagination, Rivendell was a place where people sat by the fire, told stories and sang tra-la-la-free songs. I recall Tolkien writing about a hall or something... there was not enough of that in LOTR.
I think there's an opportunity to make it look more homely, also because the Dwarves and Bilbo are moving into what is essnetially called Wilderland; no homes. No homely homes at least. So if this is the last home they run into, it should at least look more like a home, and less like patio that got invaded by Ents. Or something...
But those are just my two cents...
(This post was edited by leo on May 7 2008, 10:03am)
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merklynn
Lorien
May 7 2008, 1:22pm
Post #10 of 22
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I don't think there should be much change. The Elves are a very old and conservative people. Even 60 years difference should not really reflect much difference in Rivendell. Perhaps GDTs brightened "golden" color palette will come into play a little here. But hopefully any singing that the Elves are doing will be translated to quenya or something. To keep The Hobbit within the film canon as GDT has stated he will do, the Elves will need to feel the same as they did in FOTR.
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luinfalathiel
Lorien
May 7 2008, 2:11pm
Post #11 of 22
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I think we could use a few joyful elves. Everyone was so solemn and serious in LOTR, of course they had reason to be, but still.
Now that they've been portrayed as so "noble" and "high", I can't really picture them heckling Bilbo and company as they come into Rivendell, or singing the silly song. I can see them dancing on a lawn, but not just random jigging around tra-la-la-ing, much more of a graceful type of dance perhaps?
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Elven
Valinor
May 7 2008, 3:18pm
Post #12 of 22
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There was some stills or footage ..
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I think I remember seeing 3 of Elves (maidens) from the LOTR film, (bt it didn't make the films) ... Elves dancing in a circle, or holding hands (ack - cant remember) ... and some Elves wandering through the woods - leisure time in Lorien - Elves Day off maybe - but I cant remember where I saw this ... maybe its in the Extras in the Theatrical versions ...
but it didn't look silly or stupid - just Elvish
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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Voorhas
Lorien
May 7 2008, 6:08pm
Post #13 of 22
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The footage of elves running and laughing was used in the early teaser for FOTR, but didn't make it into either the theatrical or extended cut of the film.
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe
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Zmulady
Rohan
May 7 2008, 7:16pm
Post #14 of 22
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I'd like to see the elves with more joyful singing. When I saw Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire and heard the Merwen Peolpe singing in the lake, it made me think of happy elves singing. I am probably the only one but, something like that I think, would be great for Hobbit's elves in Rivendell. It reminded me of the lament for Gandalf in FOTR, but happier.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
May 7 2008, 7:54pm
Post #15 of 22
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Ooh, I like that idea (madrigals) //
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
May 7 2008, 8:26pm
Post #16 of 22
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So if this is the last home they run into, it should at least look more like a home, and less like patio that got invaded by Ents. Or something...
But those are just my two cents...
I agree. I always pictured it looking a bit like Old Faithful Inn in Yellowstone
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
May 7 2008, 8:32pm
Post #17 of 22
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I put up a poll on this topic. //
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea
May 8 2008, 1:58am
Post #18 of 22
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I didn't listen to all of the samples on the album I linked to, but I didn't hear any that sounded like an Irish jig. Were you referring to one of the madrigals or to something else?
Where's Frodo?
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Kelvarhin
Half-elven
May 8 2008, 2:51am
Post #19 of 22
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Coming from an irish background (real mixture in me :D)
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I was referring to tra-la-la-lally as being often used in irish jokes, jigs, stereotypes, so always makes me think of "irish". I suppose they could always change the elves to be more like leprachauns
There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay
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renzn
Bree
May 8 2008, 7:15pm
Post #20 of 22
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It'll be interesting to see Rivendell again. I hope they show different views of the area other than just a couple waterfalls and a few rooms. I'm looking forward to seeing Mirkwood with greater anticipation than lands we've already been shown. I'm interesting in seeing the differences in elven appearances (hair color, and clothing), dwelling structures, the vegetation and overall lighting of the woods. I can't wait to see inside the halls and chambers of Thranduil. We've seen the beautiful clothing of Elrond's people and their dark hair. What about Thranduil's blonde haired people? Do they wear clothing with shades of green and brown so they're a bit more "camouflaged?" Are their garments less grand than the elves in Rivendell? These are the contrasts I look forward to the most considering the strained relationships between the two realms.
You have a true interest in these stories and it's obvious that you have good Tolkien knowledge. Do us all a favor and express your opinions about other lands and what ELSE you're wanting to see and why?
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
May 11 2008, 1:37pm
Post #21 of 22
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Excellent!... Oh, it starts me dreaming... :-) //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
May 11 2008, 1:46pm
Post #22 of 22
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Quite right; what about the place
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from where Elrond & Gandalf look at Frodo & Sam ready to go back to the Shire, and start discussing about Saruman, the future of the Ring, etc?
Which kind of space do you think this place they are in could be part of? Could you imagine a whole house around it, the House of Elrond? Perhaps they could show us more of it in 'The Hobbit', and make it really look and feel like 'the last homely home' you rightly mention? I too would love that... 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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