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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Nazgul Tomb was supposed to occur during the Misty Mountains sequence...
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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 15 2012, 4:15am

Post #1 of 26 (2384 views)
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Nazgul Tomb was supposed to occur during the Misty Mountains sequence... Can't Post

Just received my copy of the WETA book - just gorgeous, definitely recommend if you've not yet picked it up - and found an interesting tidbit: apparently, the Nazgul tomb or the "High Fells", is located in the Misty Mountains, and Gandy/Raddy were going to explore it while Bilbo and the Dwarves were headed for Goblin-town. I suppose Gandy decided to check it out between the Council meeting and catching up with the Dwarves; I wonder if this will be in the EE, or if it will be re-worked to occur later on in Film 2?

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 15 2012, 4:18am

Post #2 of 26 (1451 views)
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I'm so completely confused [In reply to] Can't Post

By all the things that were supposed to be in this film and weren't. It sounds like there was a pretty massive overhaul when the third film came into play. As of right now, I can't say I'm a fan.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


Elutherian
Rohan


Dec 15 2012, 4:20am

Post #3 of 26 (1298 views)
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I hope we get to see it either way... [In reply to] Can't Post

...But I think the second film might be the most likely considering the pacing of AUJ and Radagast's departure.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 15 2012, 4:23am

Post #4 of 26 (1401 views)
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AUJ does give off the impression a lot was reworked or removed late in the game... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's somewhat frustrating, regardless of the final film itself, I agree. Sorry to hear you didn't like it - hope the EE and or next two installments salvage it for you! Smile

I think it's a very flawed film, but personally I liked it despite it not being on tier with LotR, IMO. I suspect (or certainly hope), the EE solves some of the structural issues in Film 1.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 15 2012, 4:32am

Post #5 of 26 (1344 views)
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I'm banking on two things [In reply to] Can't Post

1) That my second viewing is a much better experience. There were many things that I loved about the film, but I think the flaws completely caught me off guard last night. I think a second viewing, knowing those things are coming, will help me appreciate the film better.

2) That an extended edition adds back a lot of things that help the story. An extended edition really could make or break this film for me.

Of course, there are still two films left. Even if I never like AUJ, I hope I love the final two as much as I do LOTR. I think I'll be more forgiving of AUJ if I think 2 & 3 knock it out of the park.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


thoon
Bree


Dec 15 2012, 4:42am

Post #6 of 26 (1271 views)
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I don't expect to see it in the EE [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm hesitant to assume that it will be in. It's possible that Gandalf could depart while the Dwarves are at Rivendell to investigate the tombs. One of the confirmed EE scenes is additional footage of the dwarves "ribbing" the elves at Rivendell, so there might be time. But considering the White Council meeting covers the tomb event, it can't come after the company's departure (unless Gandalf goes to the tomb, comes back Rivendell, has the meeting, and then gets to Goblin Town in the span of time it takes the Dwarves to go straight there). I think it's more likely just another casualty of the three film decision.


starlesswinter
Lorien

Dec 15 2012, 5:03am

Post #7 of 26 (1230 views)
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That's how I feel as well [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked it overall, but there was a missing spark that kept it from being a truly great film. I was sort of in shock at how indifferent I felt when it was over. There were some creative decisions I thought were simply baffling.


Ioreth
The Shire

Dec 15 2012, 8:22am

Post #8 of 26 (1132 views)
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maybe they've decided to cut it? [In reply to] Can't Post

I never liked the stupid idea of Tombs with Spells ...

*hoping*


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 15 2012, 9:14am

Post #9 of 26 (1148 views)
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I think Galadriel says in the film where they are buried [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't make it out, but "High Fells" probably fits.

I presume it will be put back into the EE. Though, I'm not sure of the importance of the scene anymore. Is it just to confirm that the tombs are empty? Can't they presume that anyway?

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Rohirrim Rider
Rivendell


Dec 15 2012, 9:15am

Post #10 of 26 (1119 views)
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I think it may be the opening of Desolation of Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

We know the film will deal with the Necromancer storyline moreso than this film did, and possibly concluding (Jackson says we will see the Council "kicking arse" in the next one) so it might make sense to open up with that scene to remind audiences about it. And it wouldn't be the first time a scene has been cut from the main body of the film and used as the opener in the next film as we saw with the Smeagol flashback.

I can't see how it would fit in the chronological order of Desolation's plot - although I suppose Gandalf could go after Beorn's house it would be assumed that they have already planned and filmed something else for him to do there. And I don't think it should be an EE addition to AUJ as it would seem odd to the main audience (who just see the theatricals) to have a storyline about Gandalf's investigations without showing the actual investigation!


Lightice
Lorien

Dec 15 2012, 12:18pm

Post #11 of 26 (1034 views)
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Second movie is the most likely [In reply to] Can't Post

The way I've interpreted the pacing, the second film will probably feature Gandalf and Radagast exploring the tomb pretty soon after Gandalf has split up with the Company, and then goes to Dol Guldur to make sure of his suspicions. Finally he'll probably go back to the White Council to report of his findings, but they'll be hesitant, and it's only in the third film that they'll agree to stage a full-scale attack on the Necromancer. The fact that the tombs were cut from the first film does explain why Radagast dissappears so abruptly and doesn't get mentioned again; I hope that this will be mended for the Extended Edition, at least.

Galadriel mentioned the mountain under which the Witch-King was buried by name, but I unfortunately can't remember it. It wasn't High Fells, but then, it was the name of the mountain, not the tomb itself.


dave_lf
Gondor

Dec 15 2012, 12:45pm

Post #12 of 26 (1056 views)
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Angmar was mentioned too, I think // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 15 2012, 12:46pm

Post #13 of 26 (1005 views)
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Are there any other spoilers? :-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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RalphDamiani
Rivendell

Dec 15 2012, 1:36pm

Post #14 of 26 (996 views)
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I for one... [In reply to] Can't Post

Will be glad if the dwarves are not disrepectful toward the elves in their own home. It's okay if they're suspicious, but not barbaric troublemakers. Especially after being rescued. Dwarves can be harsh and distrustful, but Gimli was always very corteous, even as he was proud and stubborn before he met Galadriel.

And so was Gloin in the Council, who obviously held Elrond in high regard, as much as everyone else. There will be enough estrangement and misunderstandings in Thranduil's halls, and dwarves are not hooligans.

Sometimes I agree with Christopher Tolkien, the need to reach for modern audiences deprive the original text of its mythological subtleties.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 15 2012, 3:11pm

Post #15 of 26 (954 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope to goodness that I'll be able to view it differently once I've seen the next two films.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


Mahtion
Rivendell

Dec 15 2012, 3:26pm

Post #16 of 26 (984 views)
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Dwarves can be disrespectful [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Will be glad if the dwarves are not disrepectful toward the elves in their own home. It's okay if they're suspicious, but not barbaric troublemakers. Especially after being rescued. Dwarves can be harsh and distrustful, but Gimli was always very corteous, even as he was proud and stubborn before he met Galadriel.

And so was Gloin in the Council, who obviously held Elrond in high regard, as much as everyone else. There will be enough estrangement and misunderstandings in Thranduil's halls, and dwarves are not hooligans.

Sometimes I agree with Christopher Tolkien, the need to reach for modern audiences deprive the original text of its mythological subtleties.


While there are archetypes for Elves being noble and selfless and dwarves as courteous and loyal, there are exceptions. Looking into the Hobbit itself we see flaws of character. Thranduil is mistrusting and Thorin is avaricious and stubborn especially in the way he dismisses Bard and Laketown. If we look further back in the Silmarillion we see entire new dimensions of depth for both races. Their deepest faults are laid bare in acts of the Feanorians kinslayings or Elu Thingol's jealous overbearing of his daughter Luthien, his stubbornness and pride bring all of Doriath and the Sindar to ruin. Then we have the dwarves of Nogrod who murder Thingol over the Nauglamir simply for greed and insult to pride. The dwarves even mislead their kin into waging war against Doriath under false pretense. There are also the petty dwarves and their cowardice and lack of honor.

Considering Dwarves and Elves in a more realistic capacity of morality, we see that it is not impossible for Thorin and his Company to be disrespectful or rude to Elves of Mirkwood. If you notice from the trailer, Thorin looks at Elrond with condescending glances and even derision, clearly he does not trust in Elrond's wisdom. Therefore I even expect that Thorin and Thranduil with their regal ego and pride will clash, both will exhibit traits of haughtiness and indignation.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 15 2012, 3:53pm

Post #17 of 26 (922 views)
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Will post them if I find any more :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Dec 15 2012, 3:54pm)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 15 2012, 5:49pm

Post #18 of 26 (914 views)
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Where did you order it from? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine haven't even dispatched yet Frown


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Dec 15 2012, 6:18pm

Post #19 of 26 (952 views)
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Wasn't it Rhudaur? (NT) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 15 2012, 6:49pm

Post #20 of 26 (923 views)
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Quite possibly [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't make it out in either viewing of the film. Where's the transcript?! Wink

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lgghanem
The Shire

Dec 15 2012, 7:19pm

Post #21 of 26 (975 views)
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Rhudaur [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless I'm mistaken, I too remember it being Rhudaur.


Mauricio
Bree

Dec 15 2012, 7:23pm

Post #22 of 26 (925 views)
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Was the tomb scene screened? [In reply to] Can't Post

Was it ever screened? Did they show it at Cinema-Con? Otherwise how did you know what happens and who's involved?

If there is a whole thread dedicated to this, could you please pass the link? Thanks!


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 15 2012, 7:27pm

Post #23 of 26 (917 views)
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It was Rhudaur indeed. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Dec 15 2012, 9:03pm

Post #24 of 26 (1021 views)
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Yes, Galadriel says [In reply to] Can't Post

he was buried "under the High-Fells of Rhudaur..."


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 16 2012, 4:01am

Post #25 of 26 (810 views)
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Got mine from the US Amazon. Hopefully they'll start shipping from other sites sooner rather than later! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

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