|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MyWeeLadGimli
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 7:09pm
Post #1 of 86
(2441 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Most Un-Tolkien Moment?
|
Can't Post
|
|
I love both the books and movies, but every now and then something pops up where I think, "Something like that would never happen in Tolkien."
For me the moments most unlike Tolkien's work would be Kili's trouser line or Aragorn beheading the Mouth of Sauron. What moments stand out to you as being totally out of sync with the spirit of Tolkien?
|
|
|
nusilver
Nargothrond
Dec 15 2015, 8:20pm
Post #2 of 86
(2266 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'm not going to pick a moment, but...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I won't pick a moment, but this actually reminds me I wanted to share an anecdote from a recent reading of The Silmarillion. Critics of these films—Christopher Tolkien, chief among them—often complain that these films are violent action movies and strip the spirit of their source material away, yet I recently finished a segment in The Silmarillion where two Balrogs take turns smashing a character into the ground, pummeling him until there's literally nothing left but mush. That's the Tolkien so many people complain these films are a bastardization of (especially the BOTFA EE). I think people get too caught up with their own preconceptions about what the books represent and forget that they are, in fact, action adventure stories, and often times very violent.
But yeah, that trousers line...yeesh.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
(This post was edited by nusilver on Dec 15 2015, 8:21pm)
|
|
|
Gianna
Nargothrond
Dec 15 2015, 8:24pm
Post #3 of 86
(2248 views)
Shortcut
|
|
My choice is the same as yours.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The trousers line. Out of everything in all six movies, that one takes the cake as most un-Tolkien. Even Aragorn beheading the Mouth of Sauron pales in comparison. 
~There's some good left in this world. And it's worth fighting for.~
------
My website
My LOTR-inspired fantasy novel is on Amazon
|
|
|
balbo biggins
Nargothrond
Dec 15 2015, 8:36pm
Post #4 of 86
(2244 views)
Shortcut
|
gimli being the comedic relief of lotr eurrrghh
for the hobbit, its the design of thorin and kili, what were they basing them on?? its certainly not tolkien.
|
|
|
Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Dec 15 2015, 8:46pm
Post #5 of 86
(2232 views)
Shortcut
|
unlike Im mystaken and there is something about trousers in other Tolkien books like Roverandom or something
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to The Battle for the Fifth Trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
There and Back Again Traveller
|
|
|
StingingFly
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 8:59pm
Post #6 of 86
(2228 views)
Shortcut
|
There were some very good un Tolkien moments, in particular I was moved by the tears of joy shed by Thorin and Balin on entering the mountain as well as Gloin's 'take it all' exclamation on seeing his homeland once more. Unfortunately, the amount of silly, ridiculous and unbelievable action sequences derailed what could have been a great adaptation of my all time favorite book. Jackie Chan/video game fight scenes are very un Tolkien and rip you right out of what could have been an engaging story. Yes, Goblin Town and Smaug chase I'm looking at you...
(This post was edited by StingingFly on Dec 15 2015, 9:00pm)
|
|
|
Riven Delve
Dor-Lomin
Dec 15 2015, 9:34pm
Post #7 of 86
(2204 views)
Shortcut
|
|
My most un-Tolkien moment is when
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
the talking purse says, "'Ere, 'oo are you?"
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
|
|
|
balbo biggins
Nargothrond
Dec 15 2015, 9:47pm
Post #8 of 86
(2179 views)
Shortcut
|
just think how fun a true adaption of the hobbit would be, talking purse, talking birds and all!
|
|
|
Brandybuckled
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 10:14pm
Post #9 of 86
(2154 views)
Shortcut
|
NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented
|
|
|
DanielLB
Elvenhome
Dec 15 2015, 10:41pm
Post #10 of 86
(2140 views)
Shortcut
|
Nobody ever complained when Bilbo said "What have I got in my pocket?" to Gollum!
|
|
|
DainPig
Mithlond
Dec 15 2015, 10:59pm
Post #12 of 86
(2107 views)
Shortcut
|
Tolkien would never write a book based in the Super Legolas
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, this is my blog: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
Dain Ironfoot has come!! And his pig's here too! It's going to be a great feast tonight, we are gonna eat Dain's pig! :0
|
|
|
Bladerunner
Mithlond
Dec 15 2015, 11:04pm
Post #13 of 86
(2106 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The naked dwarves in the fountain....
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...the food fight at Rivendell...
......the belching at Bag End....
.....the toilet entrance in Bard's house...
|
|
|
Ringtir
Ossiriand
Dec 15 2015, 11:09pm
Post #14 of 86
(2101 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Thorin standing in the nose of a dumbbumping dragon...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And a lot of Legolas... And the Gandalf Galadriel romance... And the "could anybody think on the children?" and "winter is coming" lines... And the catapult death of Alfrid... And Hilda Bianco... And Thranduil speaking over and over about LOTR trilogy... And the battle of the 12 armies... And Kili over Fili... And a lot more
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Doriath
Dec 15 2015, 11:48pm
Post #15 of 86
(2080 views)
Shortcut
|
I'd say for me it would be:
1. Alfrid (everything about him).
2. Evil, zombie-eyed, comic-book hero Legolas.
3. What's it got in its trousers, etc. Cringe. 
4. Various grossness, which was COMPLETELY un-Tolkien self-indulgence, only (perhaps) working when it came to the Trolls in AUJ.
Other things that I don't particularly like I can live with, as I did when it came to the LotR trilogy. I'm also thrilled with Thorin in every respect and for me having RA play him makes up for a lot – had he not been in it, I think I may have given up on this trilogy. Great bit of casting, as far as I'm concerned. 
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Dec 15 2015, 11:51pm)
|
|
|
MyWeeLadGimli
Menegroth
Dec 16 2015, 1:11am
Post #16 of 86
(2041 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I wouldn't call those scenes Un-Toliken
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They weren't in the book, but they have the spirit of longing for home and the respect for heritage and history that is very much in line with Tolkien.
I agree that Un-Tolkien isn't necessarily bad, though. Something like Balin's "I'm getting too old for this" Lethal Weapon line would be out of place in Tolkien, but I thought it was great in the movie.
|
|
|
MyWeeLadGimli
Menegroth
Dec 16 2015, 1:34am
Post #17 of 86
(2038 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think it's because it's the Hobbit
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I don't think most people would mind as much if there was strong violence in a Silmarillion adaptation, but the Hobbit is a children's book, and a lighthearted one at that. Seeing it made gritty and graphic is just such a departure from what that book in particular was about.
|
|
|
nusilver
Nargothrond
Dec 16 2015, 1:41am
Post #18 of 86
(2039 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't think most people would mind as much if there was strong violence in a Silmarillion adaptation, but the Hobbit is a children's book, and a lighthearted one at that. Seeing it made gritty and graphic is just such a departure from what that book in particular was about.
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you read The Hobbit? No disrespect meant, but I don't think it's as lighthearted as you remember. It's not a book I've read annually like LOTR or anything, but I did read it a couple of years ago and it's definitely not the lighthearted fairy story people make it out to be.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
|
|
|
MyWeeLadGimli
Menegroth
Dec 16 2015, 1:51am
Post #19 of 86
(2031 views)
Shortcut
|
I reread the whole thing a few years ago, and have read particular passages every now and then, the most recent being a couple of weeks ago. It's not quite Winnie-the-Pooh, but it is far sillier and more fantastical than any of Tolkien's other works. It has some darker moments, but they are not lingered on or described in much detail.
Trying to give this story the same tone as LOTR (which DOS and BOFA attempt) is a mismatch, because the book very much does not have the same tone as LOTR, or the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales for that matter.
|
|
|
Ringtir
Ossiriand
Dec 16 2015, 1:58am
Post #20 of 86
(2021 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Trousers and SuperLegolas have the spirit of longing for home????
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The violence its in the book, but the movie miss the path too much. Just take a look at the uncut scenes, Smaug destroying the bridge and burning the people or Beorn fighting a troll is much more Tolkien that Legolas jumping in the dwarves heads, using a batmovil, and driving a mutilated troll with a joystick.
|
|
|
nusilver
Nargothrond
Dec 16 2015, 2:22am
Post #21 of 86
(2013 views)
Shortcut
|
I reread the whole thing a few years ago, and have read particular passages every now and then, the most recent being a couple of weeks ago. It's not quite Winnie-the-Pooh, but it is far sillier and more fantastical than any of Tolkien's other works. It has some darker moments, but they are not lingered on or described in much detail.
Trying to give this story the same tone as LOTR (which DOS and BOFA attempt) is a mismatch, because the book very much does not have the same tone as LOTR, or the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales for that matter.
That's a fair assessment of the book. I wouldn't call the film work a mismatch, though - it's an adaptation, after all, and what Wingnut sought to do (and fairly well achieved, as far as I'm concerned) was to adapt the book to the tone of their previous films. Remember, The Hobbit films aren't a companion to The Hobbit novel, but to the Lord of the Rings films.
Anyway! I just remembered another "un-Tolkien" moment, perhaps the worst of all: the "bollocks" scene in DOS EE. That was, and is still, a major blemish on what I otherwise consider the strongest of all three Hobbit films. Yuck, yuck, yuck! YUCK. :P
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
|
|
|
Ringtir
Ossiriand
Dec 16 2015, 2:53am
Post #22 of 86
(2000 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The bollocks are not so UnTolkien...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
When you think about the diet of the 3 trolls, Gollum, orcs, and Shelob. That's gross!
|
|
|
MyWeeLadGimli
Menegroth
Dec 16 2015, 4:19am
Post #23 of 86
(1970 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I was talking about StingingFly's post
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"There were some very good un Tolkien moments, in particular I was moved by the tears of joy shed by Thorin and Balin on entering the mountain as well as Gloin's 'take it all' exclamation on seeing his homeland once more."
|
|
|
Ringtir
Ossiriand
Dec 16 2015, 5:19am
Post #24 of 86
(1951 views)
Shortcut
|
And agreed with you.
|
|
|
Lissuin
Doriath
Dec 16 2015, 5:47am
Post #25 of 86
(1942 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Maybe not in a fountain as an insult to elvish sensibilities, but certainly Dwarf nudity.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The Hobbit: Queer Lodging
After that they took off their clothes and bathed in the river, which was shallow and clear and stony at the ford. When they had dried in the sun, which was now strong and warm, they were refreshed, if still sore and a little hungry.
|
|
|
|
|
1
