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KingTurgon
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 5:16pm
Post #1 of 31
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Misty Mountains Theme Absence?
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Anyone know why they have not used it at all since AUJ (that we know of)? It was a great piece of music. I've seen "distancing from AUJ" as a reason but I'm not sure if I buy that.
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BlackFox
Gondolin
Nov 21 2014, 5:20pm
Post #2 of 31
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Because the Company left the Misty Mountains behind them in AUJ. //
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 5:40pm
Post #3 of 31
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That's a very litteral interpretation
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it was clearly the theme of the company, not of a region in the west of some mountains in the referenced. And the misty mountains themselves are very secondary part of the song in the first place.
Personally I don't understand the absence of this theme. I tend to think it was not a free decision and that some copyrights issues happened, since the theme was composed by Plan 9 and not by Howard Shore
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Lindele
Mithlond
Nov 21 2014, 5:47pm
Post #4 of 31
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the oftentimes second part of the Misty Mountain theme, that sort of escalating melody that Howard Shore wrote as a transition out of the Misty Mountain theme (which he didn't write), is used a lot in DOS. I wish I was better with musical terminology etc but I know what I'm trying to say.
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King_horse
Nevrast
Nov 21 2014, 5:55pm
Post #5 of 31
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If you played the lego hobbit game (which includes AUJ and DOS) you will notice that the cutscenes are a very accurate adaption of the movie. Even the music was very accurate but every scene that featured the misty mountain song was left out of the game. In fact the song was never used again in any trailer, advertising, soundtrack... once AUJ came out.
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BlackFox
Gondolin
Nov 21 2014, 5:57pm
Post #6 of 31
(774 views)
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I didn't come up with it myself
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I read about it. Somewhere. Might have just been an excuse.
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 21 2014, 5:59pm)
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 5:59pm
Post #7 of 31
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Timestamp?
I think I know what your are referring to.
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King_horse
Nevrast
Nov 21 2014, 6:06pm
Post #8 of 31
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Would they really decide to never use one of the best piece of music from the hobbit again just because they left the mist mountains ? The song was the heroic company theme and was used even before they arrived to the misty mountains (troll scene). They could have used the music during the heroic dwarves moments in DOS ( barrel scene and smaug fight).
(This post was edited by King_horse on Nov 21 2014, 6:07pm)
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Imladris18
Menegroth
Nov 21 2014, 6:09pm
Post #9 of 31
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I did notice this now that you mention it.
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It was kinda jarring. I was anticipating it, but then they threw a curve and I was a bit sad :(
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BlackFox
Gondolin
Nov 21 2014, 6:51pm
Post #10 of 31
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Not that it would make the theme's post-AUJ absence any less odd.
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 21 2014, 6:51pm)
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 6:51pm
Post #11 of 31
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Written by a third party - WB didn't license it for anything beyond AUJ
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It's not a Howard Shore tune, someone else wrote it, and for whatever reason, WB decided they didn't want to pay to license it for further films / media.
Maybe the guys who owned the copyright were asking too much, and wouldn't back down, or WB were just being tight. We'll never know.
* crunch *
(This post was edited by Crunchable Birdses on Nov 21 2014, 6:52pm)
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Macfeast
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 7:04pm
Post #12 of 31
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... that there are three songs in the book ("Far over the Misty Mountains cold", "The wind was on the withered heath", and finally "Under the Mountain dark and tall") that follows the structure of the Misty Mountains-song, so the Misty Mountains-theme (as we have come to call it, mind you; I can't recall ever seeing it officially referred to as thus) doesn't have to be restricted to the Misty Mountains - as in, the actual mountain-range - exclusively. Have the dwarves perform the "Under the Mountain dark and tall"-song in preparation for the battle to come, and you could reasonably have the Misty Mountains-theme (or at least a more somber and grim rendation of it) make a return without being out of place.
Also, if we can get themes like the "Gondor Reborn"-theme in AUJ, when Gondor was nowhere to be seen, then I think the Misty Mountains-theme (again, as we have come to call it) can make a return played alongside the dwarves with which the theme was frequently played; The latter actually strikes me as more "topical" (in lack of a better word) than the former, if that is of importance.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 21 2014, 7:07pm)
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Bishop
Mithlond
Nov 21 2014, 7:06pm
Post #13 of 31
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Looking at the big picture that seems like an awfully strange oversight, a major thematic motif being dropped from the score because of licensing issues. But it would make sense. Otherwise I could see it being a continuing motif for sure.
Any idea why they didn't get Shore to compose a piece for it?
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macfalk
Doriath
Nov 21 2014, 7:12pm
Post #14 of 31
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Has to be the copyright issue.
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If not there would at least be a hint of the theme in DOS and BOFA OSTs and there aren't. Misty Mountains theme was to Thorin & Co what the Fellowship theme was to the Fellowship - they would never just drop it like that.
Luckily we have the "Erebor" theme which is a worthy replacement.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Nov 21 2014, 7:13pm)
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 7:13pm
Post #15 of 31
(670 views)
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And Thorin's theme.
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sycorax82
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 8:20pm
Post #16 of 31
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Howard Shore didn't write it, so maybe wanted it gone asap
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I don't mind because it at least makes AUJ unique. The 'sons of Durin' theme is more-or-less the replacement for it.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Nov 21 2014, 11:08pm
Post #17 of 31
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I feel like maybe I read to much into it, but I got the impression that Shore was annoyed when talking about it on the AUJ EE. It's probably why that feature is so short (besides there being not many new themes in AUJ in general).
I mean would you want someone coming in and defining a theme for you? For a series of films that you defined? I'm sure it was boring for Shore to have to adapt someone else's music and didn't complain when he didn't have to use it going forward!
I still love the Mist Mountain song though. Bless Plan 9! 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Glorfindela
Doriath
Nov 22 2014, 12:14am
Post #18 of 31
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It's probably the most appropriate and best piece of music for the Dwarves, and it should have been used throughout the three films in the same way that the Shire theme was used throughout the LotR trilogy in scenes featuring Hobbits.
It just seems bizarre that they couldn't have taken care of copyright issues (if those were the reasons for the exclusion of the music past AUJ). Much of the DoS music just seemed alien to me, which was a great pity, because the music for the LotR films and the Misty Mountains theme are very memorable and a big part of the film experience for me.
IMHO
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Nov 22 2014, 12:43am
Post #19 of 31
(486 views)
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I seriously doubt that it was a copyright thing.
If that were so, how were they able to use Flaming Red Hair in the AUJ EE? and why did Plan 9 return for the Lake-town fanfare if they were unhappy with royalties?
No, I believe it was a creative decision by the filmmakers.
Oh and the best dwarf theme is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lepwy1Gz-Gk
(This one is good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtD0_J_nyN4)
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Glorfindela
Doriath
Nov 22 2014, 12:52am
Post #20 of 31
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As far as the 'best' Dwarf theme is concerned
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This is subjective and a matter of personal preference. For me, the best Dwarf theme IS the 'Misty Mountain' theme.
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Faleel
Nargothrond
Nov 22 2014, 1:23am
Post #21 of 31
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Don't get me wrong, its a great theme, and I love it, but its not the most malleable.
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Old Toby
Hithlum
Nov 22 2014, 3:34am
Post #22 of 31
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I think it represents Thorin & Company's quest in general. Although I would have not liked hearing it done a lot again, still the melody might have been able to play a part somewhere. As I recall in the book, after the dwarves got inside Erebor, at one point they sang another song, which was supposed to sound a lot like the Misty Mountains song. So who knows, maybe the melody will resurface. Probably not though, for various reasons that people here have posted. But that one scene of them singing that song in Bag End is one of my favorite moments of the films thus far.
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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zzdecapitator
Lindon
Nov 22 2014, 7:05am
Post #23 of 31
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Maybe it will be present in BOFA?
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Perhaps its absence in DOS has something to do with the three-film split. Could they have just signed an agreement for it to be used in 2 films and then didn't want to revise the contract?
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Nov 22 2014, 7:20am
Post #24 of 31
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Perhaps a preference by Howard?
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I've long thought it might just be the fact that it wasn't a theme composed by Howard, and after it's heavy use in the final cut of AUJ, perhaps HS just desired to push his own themes in DoS and BotFA.
Just pure speculation on my part, but no more than the legal issues theory.
If there's one silver lining to the theme's absence, it's that it gives AUJ a unique musical quality in the trilogy.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 22 2014, 7:24am)
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Noria
Hithlum
Nov 22 2014, 1:48pm
Post #25 of 31
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I love the Misty Mountains theme but am fine with its absence..
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This was my assumption: Shore had not composed the score for AUJ when filming began and they needed a song for the Bag End scene. They got Plan 9 to write the Misty Mountains theme, which was so great that PJ wanted to keep using it and Shore incorporated it into the AUJ score.
For whatever reason, licensing or artistic, the theme isn't part of the sequel scores. Misty Mountains is great but IMO there is enough of it in AUJ. I happy that there is now space, so to speak, in the scores for the other themes that Shore composed for the Dwarves and other places and characters..
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