|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Remus
Menegroth
Nov 4 2014, 9:36am
Post #1 of 16
(1265 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Just saw the EE
|
Can't Post
|
|
and the scene that was BIG 'what the heck' moment was when they buried the Nazguls and the Witch King. How can you wrap something up when you can't see it? Nazguls are invisible and can only be seen in the spiritual world -
or if they wear clothes. But this corpse almost looked like he was naked. Haha.
I guess they stripped the Nazguls naked and kinda searched with their hands where their head, arms and legs where and kinda wrapped it up....
(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 1 2015, 5:33pm)
|
|
|
DwellerInDale
Nargothrond
Nov 4 2014, 11:14am
Post #2 of 16
(776 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Galadriel already explained it
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
in AUJ Galadriel tells the White Council, "When Angmar fell, the men of the North took his body, and all that he possessed, and sealed it in a tomb within the High Fells..."
In movie-verse they were not yet wraiths; that was the doing of the Necromancer (Sauron) after their mortal deaths.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
(This post was edited by DwellerInDale on Nov 4 2014, 11:15am)
|
|
|
dormouse
Gondolin
Nov 4 2014, 2:05pm
Post #3 of 16
(564 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I would have thought it was obvious...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...that for the film they have changed the nature of the Nazgul.
In the book they're undead, faded into invisibility. In the film they've been brought back from the dead. They died, were buried in sealed tombs, and have been set free by the power of the Necromancer. This is the story the film has been telling since the White Council scene in AUJ and in this context the scene makes perfect sense - I was surprised and glad that it was included as it fills out the film version of the story.
|
|
|
dave_lf
Mithlond
Nov 4 2014, 2:08pm
Post #4 of 16
(525 views)
Shortcut
|
Indeed. Even more than that, in the films it's implied that it was this act of bringing the bearers of the nine back from the dead as ringwraiths that earned him the style "Necromancer." In the books, it's less clear what he did to earn that name.
(This post was edited by dave_lf on Nov 4 2014, 2:09pm)
|
|
|
Remus
Menegroth
Nov 4 2014, 2:20pm
Post #5 of 16
(543 views)
Shortcut
|
So in PJs version the Nazgul were still ALIVE, as in flesh and blood (maybe they looked twisted & ugly) and in the Last Alliance of Men & Elves they killed the Nine even before Sauron came out from Bara-Dur during it's 7 year long siege?
Am i right?
|
|
|
Arannir
Doriath
Nov 4 2014, 2:30pm
Post #6 of 16
(529 views)
Shortcut
|
... Angmar "fell" (and was indeed even founded) long after the Battle of the Last Alliance (End of the Second Age) in 1975 Third Age, after the Witchking was defeated at Fornost by Men and Elves.
The Last Alliance wasn't the last time Men and Elves fought together before the War of the Ring.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 4 2014, 2:31pm)
|
|
|
painjoiker
Hithlum
Nov 4 2014, 3:56pm
Post #7 of 16
(471 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I thought that scene was amazing!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It had this LotR-quality to it which many scenes of these films lack, so I don't mind that they changed it if it suits the film better, which is the case here! 
Vocalist in the melodic metal band Betomast
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium
|
|
|
Bombadil
Gondolin
Nov 4 2014, 4:38pm
Post #8 of 16
(428 views)
Shortcut
|
Bomby agrees with ALL of this...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Their bodies were wasting away in the TOMBS
Sauron.."Necromanced" THEM
So when we see them as they
Were @
WeatherTop
They look like jus'
Rotting Corpses
Re-Animated...?
Only Frodo could see how
Wasted they had become
While
Wearing the ONE...
THIS TOTALLY ***Clicked***
in bomzz
Mind FINALLY..
thanks to your Observations.
You guys Killed it
on this TOPIC
Thang You
Berry Buch
bom
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
|
|
|
Remus
Menegroth
Nov 4 2014, 6:22pm
Post #9 of 16
(412 views)
Shortcut
|
I am not a Tolkien Fanatic and i love PJs LOTR movies and don't compare it to the books.
But changing this thing with the Nazguls is really really messed up! So the Nazguls became ghosts after Sauron resurrected them?? So they became invisible then?
In the books the Nazguls became invisible when they had worn their rings for a long time...
(This post was edited by dernwyn on Nov 5 2014, 12:19pm)
|
|
|
Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 4 2014, 6:31pm
Post #10 of 16
(390 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think there may be a bit of conclusion leaping, in this thread.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The intricacies of the Nazgul in the text are mysterious as they are in the films but the scene shows the body wrapped in material - so who knows what was underneath. I don't think there is anything new in that element - no reason to assume it works differently to their black rider robes.
|
|
|
Bombadil
Gondolin
Nov 4 2014, 6:52pm
Post #11 of 16
(373 views)
Shortcut
|
|
bomby will Quote myself...."Rotting Corpses Re-Animated.."?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
once re-Animated...
THEY STAYED exactly
how they were after
Laying in the Tombs
for a few years
THAT is EXACTLY
what they look like
@ Weathertop, under their Black
Robes...
That iz where bomby will leave it.
WORKS for me.
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
|
|
|
Mooseboy018
Hithlum
Nov 4 2014, 10:37pm
Post #12 of 16
(318 views)
Shortcut
|
I think it still makes sense with the book canon for the most part. The Nazgul still had bodies that allowed them to interact with the physical world, so I think they were always meant to be somewhere in between the physical world and the wraith/spirit world. They were invisble but not complete ghosts, which makes it at least somewhat possible to imagine a scenario where some vague Tolkien-ish magic allowed them to be temporarily restrained and placed in tombs.
Also, if they were meant to have been mortal men when Angmar fell in the movies, why would Gandalf immediately refer to them as Ringwraiths? He used the term as if they had been called that for a long time, not as if he just made it up on the spot.
And why would the Men of the North go to so much trouble to seal them in tombs if the idea of them ever being risen from the dead was "absurd"?. It seems more likely that they knew the Ringwraiths weren't defeated completely and still posed a huge threat. Restraining their bodies was probably just a temporary solution while sealing the tombs with magic was meant to be a permanent solution.
|
|
|
redgiraffe
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2014, 6:58am
Post #13 of 16
(278 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't buy it that they had bodies and the necromancer raised them from it. And I don't think that's explicitly stated in the movie verse anyway. Yeah we see a body wrapped in clothe. We also see them able to wear cloaks and armor that fit around some solid form. So while they are spirits they can still wear clothing. Almost as if their bodies are just invisible. Which would make sense in the hobbit why we see wrappings around a solid form. Its the same principle of the black rider cloaks and armor. So I think ppeople who are saying they have bodies in the movie verse are incorrect.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
|
|
|
Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 5 2014, 7:52am
Post #14 of 16
(274 views)
Shortcut
|
|
They have bodies in the books too, of course.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Though it's not straightforwardly one or the other.
|
|
|
Remus
Menegroth
Nov 5 2014, 9:17am
Post #15 of 16
(262 views)
Shortcut
|
Yeah, they can still have their dark rider robes under those wraps and chains. So i guess that's it.
But how did they become doctile/dormant? Nazguls can only be hurt by enchanted daggers & swords. Ordinary bows, swords just hit them but to no effect. Oh wait... I guess the daggers in the book our fellow hobbits finds in the Barrow Downs are from the Kingdom of the North and they were enchanted with spells & magic to do just that, damage on the Nazguls.
So i guess they killed the Nazguls during the War in the North and then sealed them in the tombs?
|
|
|
Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 5 2014, 10:35am
Post #16 of 16
(256 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Not at all - the Nazgul have all kinds of weaknesses
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
that ebb and flow. They don't like sunlight, they are rendered non-threatening by the river outside Rivendell, they are wary of entering Bree (in the book), they are threatened by powerful elves and wizards etc etc.
Also I think "killed" is not a word used in the films. It seems to me their status remains in the films, as it is in the books, between and outside the more usual (and later) popular conceptions of "undead".
|
|
|
|
|
