|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oden
Ossiriand
Jan 2 2008, 11:30pm
Post #1 of 28
(1257 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Christopher Lee returning as Saruman?
|
Can't Post
|
|
Anyone concerned that Christopher Lee may not return as Saruman?
When ROTK was originally released into theaters, Saruman's part was not there. We had to wait for the extended version to see Christopher Lee. If I remember correctly, Christopher Lee wasn't the happiest with having Saruman edited out of the theatrical release, especially since TTT left with Saruman trapped in his tower.
I am not sure where Christopher Lee now stands in regards to returning as Saruman. Obviously there are no "official" cast members yet, but I would hate to not see him return because of these differences.
|
|
|
Patty
Elvenhome
Jan 2 2008, 11:36pm
Post #2 of 28
(1048 views)
Shortcut
|
I would dearly love to see him reprise his role.
And I would think he'd love to do it, despite what happened in RotK, as he is a real Tolkien fan. He also is very secure within himself and I doubt he'd be so small as to refuse for that reason. I would worry more about his health by the time these movies are filmed.
For Gondor!
|
|
|
Rabittooth
Nevrast
Jan 2 2008, 11:42pm
Post #3 of 28
(1039 views)
Shortcut
|
...but they should be writing his parts first, dig out his costume and shoot as much stuff as possible as soon as possible in front of a green screen and a quiet set. The man NEEDS to reprise his role and time may be a factor. I'm not saying he could keel over any second, but at his age, who knows what he will be physically capable of in a few years.
-Rabittooth
www.rabittooth.com
|
|
|
Oden
Ossiriand
Jan 2 2008, 11:43pm
Post #4 of 28
(1024 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Truly one of the great Tolkien fans...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Yes, I do believe he is "bigger" than that.
To your health, Mr. Lee!
|
|
|
Elizabeth
Gondolin
Jan 3 2008, 12:25am
Post #5 of 28
(1048 views)
Shortcut
|
...that, while he is still making films, he is no longer able to travel long distances to do it (i.e., not to NZ). He is much too gracious to publicly admit to holding a grudge about RotK, but the evidence is that he was plenty upset.
Son of Elizabeth in Frodo's tree
March, 2007
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
|
|
|
Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jan 3 2008, 1:08am
Post #6 of 28
(998 views)
Shortcut
|
If he is offered to be Saruman, he'll take it, because he loves the part. However, maybe he'll seek a special contract, in order to assure that he won't "waste" his time shooting only to not appear in the theatrical release.
Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
|
|
|
Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 3 2008, 4:14am
Post #7 of 28
(1000 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I wouldn't expect Saruman in the movies
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
He doesn't appear in The Hobbit anyway. I suppose they could write him into this sequel thing, but I'm still holding out hope that the sequel will essentially be Aragorn's journeys as Thorongil, which could be interesting and canon-friendly. So personally I don't really mind if Lee's not there.
The New Zealand Christmas tree, the pohutukawa; Wellington, December 2007
|
|
|
Sunflower
Doriath
Jan 3 2008, 4:30am
Post #8 of 28
(985 views)
Shortcut
|
is that IMO the White Council will HAVE to be filmed. It's as inevitable as Rivendell in LOTR. Thorongil's journeys would have no meaning if they were not "sanctioned" first, and we would need TWC to tell us what it is all about.Even if Thorongil never meets anyone at the Council (and he'd better not, you can only go so far in tweaking the plot here), I think Gandalf is is his "university tutorial" here. Plus, if we are seeking cinematic "continuity" with LOTR--which is not so much an issue with The Hobbit as it will be in this sequel film--then the White Council is a must. From a cinematic POV, the audience will need to see the "purpose" of the Hobbit film: that as a book, the story works on its own with only a loose association with LOTR (as Tolkien wrote it); but as a film, it would make more sense to attempt to place it in the proper "military" context as Tolkien seemed to do in later yrs. And to do that, we NEED the White Council.
Of course it will upset the purists (I'm not naming names  ), but sit down, take a deep breath and repeat after me: THIS IS A MOVIE....
With regards to Mr. Lee, I hate to say it but I'm afraid Rabbitooth is right, and I admit to having had a couple thoughts along this very line lately. Jackson reportedly wanted to put a cameo of Fay Wray in King Kong after he met her just after the 2004 Oscars (or maybe it was at them?) but she died right before filming started. I thought that was a real tragedy. With Lee, not getting as much footage of him as possible now would be a grave mistake. Folks who saw the Golden Compass reported that even in his cameo, Lee looked rather frail. The man is pushing 90. They say that once you hit 85, after that, you slow down REAL fast. The man who dueled Yoda in Attack of the Clones in 2002...I doubt he could do that today. Lee would be possible b/c The White Council all he'd be doing is sitting and talking, with maybe an intercut shot of him standing and speaking like Boromir.
And BTW--I'd love to see the moments when Gandalf and Thorongil meet, at least when "Estel" is an adult and knows his role. But again: this will be glorified fanfic. I mean, most of Arwen was "fanfic" but it used phrases taken from the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. But there won't be any written framework to draw from here! This is what troubles even this non-film-purist. And how sure can we be that Viggo will want to reprise his role, even as a small part, and Jackson not there? Could we ever see Viggo working for such a "mainstream" director as Raimi? WOuld he even be comfortable reprising Aragorn at all? I's love to see this stuff, but am a bit troubled by some of it. You could get away with some of it in LOTR b/c it was so well written and emotional....
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 3 2008, 4:38am)
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 3 2008, 4:36am
Post #9 of 28
(990 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Lee HAS to reprise the Saruman role and Saruman MUST be in the films
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
probably briefly in THe Hobbit, and CERTAINLY in the Bridge. There can be no bridge movie without The White Council. THe Council of The Wise is one of THE ONLY things appears in both the Hobbit and LOTR, though in both it is only alluded to. Still, the most significant events connecting the two works, aside from the finding of the ring itself, heavily involve the council, and the council heavily involves Saruman.
I'm sure Lee would sign on, provided that he is guarunteed his material will mostly make it to screen. He did not disown Peter or the cast afrer the ROTK incident, he simply stated some displeasure that the material did not make it in.
He seems in decent Health, but I would prefer that they start rolling on things ASAP. Granted, any of the younger players could get hit by a bus (God Forbid ) long before grand sorcerer Lee expires. I'm betting he'll live to more than a hundred. But no need to take chances. Its one of many reasons I am not interested in waiting an additional three of four years for Jackson to direct. Even Mckellen isn't likely to be climbing trees and riding ponies five years from now! And by 2014, Hugo Weaving might not look so ageless.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Sunflower
Doriath
Jan 3 2008, 4:54am
Post #10 of 28
(965 views)
Shortcut
|
Viggo himself has aged. (Ever so slightly...le sigh* ) His face I mean. Dyeing his hair will be no problem, but passing for the Dunedain equivalent of 23 or so? And I'll bet it's even younger than that...IMO, in LOTR he was the Dunedain equivalent of 30...granted, a prematurely aged 30, with hair graying at the temples from stress. Very believable. but .in 3 yrs I'll bet he'd need a *really* extreme makeup job...
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 3 2008, 4:58am)
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Doriath
Jan 3 2008, 8:04am
Post #11 of 28
(964 views)
Shortcut
|
that he was not happy with being cut out of the theatrical version, but I truly hope he'll not hold this grudge forever. If they include the White Council in the bridge movie, Saruman has to be involved - and CL was the perfect Saruman, IMO.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jan 3 2008, 1:06pm
Post #12 of 28
(945 views)
Shortcut
|
If he can keep up his health, I'd bet anything he'd leap at the chance. Even if he's only sitting at a Council meeting and not very mobile, it's the voice and presence that is Saruman's strength; so there shouldn't be a need for much physical exertion.
I've heard the rift has been calmed. What bothered me the most about his attitude was they in the dvd commentary, he was the one to mention that scenes and performances suffer being cut. AND, for every scene of his that was not used in the theatrical, Brad Dourif also lost... and there wasn't a whimper from him. Mr. Lee struck me as being very Saruman-esque in the whole matter. Nasty business, that.
However, I dearly hope he is able to and does reprise his role as Saruman. Every family has its squeaky (or pointy) wheel ;)
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
My DragonCon 07 Report
My JRRT Map Moot Report
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Jan 3 2008, 3:27pm
Post #13 of 28
(964 views)
Shortcut
|
Obviously for continuity it would be great for Christopher Lee to reprise his role, but for various reasons this might not happen. This would be a great shame, but there may be a silver lining to this cloud-
Lee was a fantastic presence as Saruman the power hungry dictator, the industrial commander. But there is a different side to Saruman in the books that I felt was missing a little- the Voice of Saruman, Saruman the silver-tongued politician, and seductive appeaser. Some of my favourite Tolkien dialogue (like when Saruman is describing how he can be more than Saruman the White- "the white cloth can be dyed, the white page can be overwritten, the white light can be broken") comes from Saruman in this guise.
In the prequel films Saruman is not yet the turncoat that he becomes in LotR, and the audience will have to be convinced that the White Council agrees with Saruman over Gandalf not to go to war with the necromancer early. I'm sure Christoper Lee could have done a great acting performance to do this, but a new Saruman would have fewer audience assumptions about their character and it could make this scene more convincing. Perhaps?
Well, I always try to be optimistic about these things!
(This post was edited by burrahobbit on Jan 3 2008, 3:28pm)
|
|
|
Idril Celebrindal
Dor-Lomin
Jan 3 2008, 4:15pm
Post #14 of 28
(947 views)
Shortcut
|
In an ideal world, Christopher Lee would be willing and able to reprise his role as Saruman. But if he can't or won't do it, that's the breaks. Prequels and sequels often run into this problem. Another actor would have to do it, for better or worse. It would be interesting to see how someone new would handle the role, especially because it would involve a side of Saruman that didn't get a lot of play in the LOTR movies: his command of his voice and his skills as a top-notch manipulator of men.
If Christopher Lee does decide to reprise his role as Saruman, though, his scenes should be shot first. Just in case.
With caffeine, all things are possible.
The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.
(This post was edited by Idril Celebrindal on Jan 3 2008, 4:16pm)
|
|
|
Patty
Elvenhome
Jan 3 2008, 4:54pm
Post #15 of 28
(935 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yes, I agree Idril..they should be shot first. And...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I imagine the insurance writers would demand that.
You know, I think that as much as Lee loves the stories, he'd want this as part of his legacy, anger or not. Plus, he's probably aware that many, many fans consider the EEs to be the definitive versions, and he's in there.
For Gondor!
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 3 2008, 10:15pm
Post #16 of 28
(909 views)
Shortcut
|
No one better. I Mean, in those few minutes before he turned hostile, when He first began to speak "Smoke rises from the mountain of Doom, The Hour Grows Late, and Gandalf The Gray rides to Isengard, seeking my counsel. . ." Ahhh!@ He WAS the VOICE, and no one can tell me different!
And he looked so benevolent and wise, descending the stairs of Isengard. He was perfect. I hope with great fervour to see him in the role again.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 3 2008, 10:23pm
Post #17 of 28
(920 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'm not sure that's what she meant
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Of course, I can't speak for Idril, but Christopher Lee's Saruman was not at all what I had pictured. Here's the Saruman I would expect:
Theoden opened his mouth as if to speak, but he said nothing. He looked up at the face of Saruman with its dark solemn eyes bent down upon him, and then to Gandalf at his side; and he seemed to hesitate. Gandalf made no sign; but stood silent as stone, as one waiting patiently for some call that has not yet come. The Riders stirred at first, murmuring with approval of the words of Saruman; and then they too were silent, as men spell-bound. It seemed to them that Gandalf had never spoken so fair and fittingly to their lord. Rough and proud now seemed all his dealings with Theoden. And over their hearts crept a shadow, the fear of a great danger: the end of the Mark in a darkness to which Gandalf was driving them, while Saruman stood beside a door of escape, holding it half open so that a ray of light came through. There was a heavy silence.
And then....
So great was the power that Saruman exerted in this last effort that none that stood within hearing were unmoved. But now the spell was wholly different. They heard the gentle remonstrance of a kindly king with an erring but much-loved minister. But they were shut out, listening at a door to words not meant for them: ill-mannered children or stupid servants overhearing the elusive discourse of their elders, and wondering how it would affect their lot. Of loftier mould these two were made: reverend and wise. It was inevitable that they should make alliance. Gandalf would ascend into the tower, to discuss deep things beyond their comprehension in the high chambers of Orthanc. The door would be closed, and they would be left outside, dismissed to await allotted work or punishment. Even in the mind of Theoden the thought took shape, like a shadow of doubt: 'He will betray us; he will go – we shall be lost.'
Then Gandalf laughed. The fantasy vanished like a puff of smoke.
Christopher Lee can yell, but he can't persuade.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 3 2008, 10:57pm)
|
|
|
Patty
Elvenhome
Jan 3 2008, 10:30pm
Post #18 of 28
(914 views)
Shortcut
|
what's #8209?
For Gondor!
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 3 2008, 10:39pm
Post #19 of 28
(907 views)
Shortcut
|
it happens when I do something in Word and copy/paste. It's meant to be a hyphen. Sorry I can't fix it!
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jan 3 2008, 10:39pm)
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Jan 3 2008, 10:44pm
Post #20 of 28
(903 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I was thinking along those lines
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Lee's voice is very commanding and epic, but not silky and persuasive as I imagine the Voice of Saruman to be.
For anyone who's heard the old BBC radio version, an actor called Peter Howell does an excellent silver-tongued Saruman.
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 3 2008, 10:57pm
Post #21 of 28
(872 views)
Shortcut
|
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 3 2008, 11:02pm
Post #22 of 28
(890 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think your focusing too much on the scenes where Saruman begins
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
in wrath to tell Gandalf the folly of his choice. Focus more on him as he greets Gandalf, or even as he speaks to himself, and semi-telepathically to Gandalf during the journey through Caradrahs. The Voice is not mad or rough. It is deep and smooth, and only slightly condescending, just enough to give an air of knowing superiority. He has the height, the noble face, and the voice. There were moments when he perfectly embodied Saruman to me, probably better than any other actor in the films embodied any other character.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Patty
Elvenhome
Jan 3 2008, 11:06pm
Post #23 of 28
(892 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yes, I agree. Lee's voice would not have been my first choice...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
in fact, I felt a sense of let-down when I heard he was reading the audio Children of Hurin.
But I'm a big one for continuity, and now that he's done it, I hope he is still around to do The Hobbit segue. The White Council is a must for me.
For Gondor!
|
|
|
Patty
Elvenhome
Jan 3 2008, 11:20pm
Post #24 of 28
(893 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Good grief. You'd have thought
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I would have been able to figure that out.
That's what happens when you read too fast, I guess. If I'd have slowed down I would have gotten it.
I agree with your thoughts--I love Chris Lee, but his was not the voice I heard when I read the books.
For Gondor!
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 4 2008, 1:20am
Post #25 of 28
(882 views)
Shortcut
|
Those Admins do come in handy once in a while
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
|
|
|
|
|
1
