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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 8:23am
Post #1 of 22
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Is Peter Jackson kidnapped?
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Iin time of LOTR, no extra scenes were added to the documentaries in such a way as in BOTFA EE, with music some editing etc.
Prap is PJ sending us a message like this: Look folks, this is the movie I wanted to do, and this WB didnt give me the time, money or permission for X reasons. I put this here, almost finished scenes and wiht no strong reasons to be cutted.
So, I putt those on the extras, so you are able to enjoy them, see my vision and so I can be at peace with you all, my will was good, but sutdios are this way
So, I´m a conspiracy lover, that is no secret, so in a crazy world (this?) could this be happening?
LOL?
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Arannir
Doriath
Oct 31 2015, 10:55am
Post #3 of 22
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"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 12:36pm
Post #4 of 22
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He was replaced sometime after the release of the Return of the King EE.
You're NEXT!!!
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 12:51pm
Post #5 of 22
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Im talking about something more plausible
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 12:53pm
Post #6 of 22
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"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 1:27pm
Post #7 of 22
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this is like the movies when the police officer comes to the house and the kdnapped woman opens the door but cant say she is in danger because de thief is threatening their children or something and the policeman notices something is not ok and tells her: well if you are in trouble give a signal, like blinkin an eye or something
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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lonelymountainhermit
Menegroth
Oct 31 2015, 1:46pm
Post #8 of 22
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something obviously went terribly wrong between rotk and auj. What I think happened was PJ didn't really want to do this movie, but you know, money and stuff. WB wanted a lotr caliber success, so they pushed for the trilogy thing cause, lotr is 3 movies and look how well it did! But its a small book how can we do that, you might ask? We'll pad the entire thing with tiresome, seemingly endless action scenes, and a bunch of other crap we just make up! There's no love story or strong female characters to bring in the teenage girls, so there you go...instant filler! And if that's not enough we'll give em a couple hunky hearththrob dwarves with metrosexual GQ beards mixed in with the dwarves that actually look sort of like you would expect dwarves to look. And for the hell of it, we'll throw Legolas in there...riding a bat. And if that doesn't work, we'll sue the Tolkien Estate for even more money, cause we really suck.
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lionoferebor
Nargothrond
Oct 31 2015, 3:38pm
Post #9 of 22
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what the OP is saying is that out of all the EE's (LOTR and Hobbit) none have had as many unfinished scenes included in the appendices as BOTFA. And perhaps these are scenes PJ wanted to include in the final cut, but WB did not allow him the time and/or money to do so.
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Avandel
Gondolin
Oct 31 2015, 4:27pm
Post #10 of 22
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Peter Jackson: Yeah, that was really driven by two things. The primary thing for me when I’m making “The Battle of the Five Armies” is it’s not just a single film. It’s the third part of “The Hobbit,” which is one single story, so it’s the climax of “The Hobbit.” So the fact is that you have a feature-length film which is really the climax of the story. And we’ve seen things set up in the middle act in the first two films, and the nature of the climax is you’re not setting up characters, you’re not establishing, and you’re not doing all the things that a movie would normally slow down its pace to do, so you’re just jumping in, and you’re in the climax, and it’s a two-hour long finale. That alone shows you that it’s got to feel that way. It’s not a regular film structure. And secondly, rather than the quest/journey type genre, which the first two films were — a quest to the mountain to face the dragon — this, I decided, is not a journey sort of film because they’re already there. So the story became much more of a psychological thriller. It had much more of a thriller feel to me with Thorin’s deterioration and all the complication that was happening. So I cut it and shot it with the rhythms of a thriller rather than the rhythms of a fantasy quest film. http://herocomplex.latimes.com/...ve-armies-ending/#/0
I've read other articles like this. No place have I read that even hints that WB had requested any kind of time limits, any more than it seems the handling of Tauriel was purely a construct of PJ, Fran, and Philippa. IMO clearly in DOS w. the leaving out of the Thranduil/dwarf scene - which would have added mere minutes if included - it seems that PJ firmly decides, and WILL cut stuff if he feels it isn't necessary for narrative flow.
In hindsight, we may find his decisions incomprehensible. Personally I think it was a mistake to approach BOFA as quoted, in that BOFA SHOULD have had, IMO, an "epic fantasy feel" to it rather than the IMO rather jarring "rollicking" pace that the TE BOFA had for me - as it was so tightly edited, for me, that nothing had time to build to a "psychological thriller", and only the by the tremendous skills of the actors was there tension at all, a lot of the time, for me.
And since there hadn't been enough character moments in the first place - for the dwarves at least except Thorin and Kili (and even then it would have been nice to see some sort of character moment between Thorin and Bilbo in DOS IMO - just like 30 seconds; tho at least BOFA has that) - anyway *shamefully* in the BOFA TE most of the dwarves get no moments at all, but it was more important to show Alfrid-moments? Because the the dwarves "had already had their turn?"
Probably WB did have some input. But the decision to focus on the battle, Thorin's madness, Legolas, the romance, the pacing - sure sounds to me as tho these are director decisions - some that worked for me, and some that didn't. PJ may well have viewed a lot of the dwarves as "already being in place" tho IMO that still doesn't explain why Fili didn't have a nice juicy scene of his very own - unless leading the party from Erebor was supposed to be it.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 4:45pm
Post #11 of 22
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So much of the added stuff was VFX heavy...
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....which, you know, costs money. So WB was willing to shell out for that, but PJ was supposedly unable to get any money to do the VFX for these other moments?
Is it really that hard to accept that the extended cut PJ wanted to deliver is not the same one that certain fans wanted?
Just because there are scenes that didn't make it in doesn't mean that there's some gigantic conspiracy that kept PJ hands tied behind his back. I know everybody likes to paint WB as the "Big Bad", but there was no evil plot to stop the EE from containing more than 20 extra minutes. That's simply what PJ decided on - period.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Oct 31 2015, 4:45pm)
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makingstarwars
Nevrast
Oct 31 2015, 4:58pm
Post #12 of 22
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you people do realize half the "made up stuff"
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Is in the appendices of lotr right?
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 5:06pm
Post #13 of 22
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Or somebody else's post?
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Ossiriand
Oct 31 2015, 7:09pm
Post #14 of 22
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Just because there are scenes that didn't make it in doesn't mean that there's some gigantic conspiracy that kept PJ hands tied behind his back. I know everybody likes to paint WB as the "Big Bad", but there was no evil plot to stop the EE from containing more than 20 extra minutes. That's simply what PJ decided on - period.
People find it easier sometimes to blame WB but we need to understand that these were PJ's decisions. It was his vision for the EE and it's never going to match up to what fans, who have diverse ideas and preferences, wanted it to be. We'll never all be satisfied.
Justice for Fili
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 31 2015, 7:16pm
Post #15 of 22
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Responding to the wrong thread?
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There seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the topic at hand, "you people," and your post.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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lionoferebor
Nargothrond
Oct 31 2015, 8:10pm
Post #16 of 22
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I will admit I have questioned the material included and excluded in the EE. However, in this instance I was simply stating what I thought the OP was tying to say...nothing more. If your interpretation is different...fine.
No it's not hard to accept. I have no choice not accept it, but that does not mean I have to be content with it. If you have accepted it and are conent, that's fine. Or if you have accepted it, yet are not content and choose to keep your thoughts to yourself, that's fine too. You have your feelings and ways of approaching the issue, I have mine. No one is right. No one is wrong. I do not appreciate being berated because my opinion is different than yours.
But again, in this particular instance I was simply stating what I thought the OP was trying to say...nothing more.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 31 2015, 11:25pm
Post #17 of 22
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Is not the first time in movie hysyory or even music industry we see this. For example Richard Donner with Superman II its a case were the studio messed up in a big way. So this things happen amd had happened.
That being said you got my point completely
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
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lionoferebor
Nargothrond
Nov 1 2015, 3:29am
Post #18 of 22
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and yes there is a history of studio interference in film production. Here are ten examples http://whatculture.com/...dio-interference.php.
Almost every major studio, including WB and New Line - though Century Fox seems to be the worse - has in some way interfered with the production of a film. Whether by reducing the runtime, funds, or dictating areas such as casting and editing. It seems no director is immune to studio interference. From rookie directors making their debut to well established veteran directors all have been victim of studios getting too involved or in extreme cases taking over the film.
Seeing as there is a history, and it's not some theory out of left field, the idea that WB may have gotten involved in the final EE and/or TE - whether cutting back on runtime, funds, or by other avenues - is not at all far fetched.
In regards to Superman II (number 7 on the list in the link above) yes, that was messed up to say the least.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Nov 1 2015, 3:50am
Post #19 of 22
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What would be WB's motivation?
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They agree to release an Extended Edition, give PJ the money for complex VFX sequences, but they tell him not to include these other scenes that require far less CGI?
Why, I ask? They have no need to keep it shorter. The film has already had it's run in the theater. There is literally zero advantage to demanding a shorter runtime for the extended edition home video release.
Also, have we had any indication that the film was removed from PJ's hands? Nothing stays that quiet in Hollywood. If WB had wrestled the film from PJ, don't you think we would have heard something about it? The only people talking about this as a possibility are fans who are upset that certain scenes got left on the cutting room floor (which, by the way, happened on LotR too).
Sure, studio interference happens. But there is literally zero evidence that that is in play here.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 1 2015, 3:52am)
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Avandel
Gondolin
Nov 1 2015, 5:30am
Post #20 of 22
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I vaguely remember reading Sony execs messed with Spiderman. Disney nosed around POTC. There was an article about how Batman went to Ben Affleck because it's also a good business deal where Affleck will be directing a few projects for WB. Studios being involved or interfering with a project is not a big secret.
So even if WB did somehow set limits, why wouldn't PJ just say? And even if it were true, fans will buy the EE anyway.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 1 2015, 2:39pm
Post #21 of 22
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There was an article about how Batman went to Ben Affleck because it's also a good business deal where Affleck will be directing a few projects for WB.
What actually strikes me about Warner Bros. is how Zack Snyder keeps getting signed to direct many of their comic-book films despite the mixed reception they receive.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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AshNazg
Hithlum
Nov 1 2015, 3:32pm
Post #22 of 22
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Nah, it was there in RotK too...
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PJ is best when he's restricted in his options. FotR was breaking new ground, the technology wasn't advanced enough to go too OTT (although those Khazad Dum stairs are bordering on Hobbit territory) and there was a tight budget - on top of many other things.
When RotK got a budget boost PJ became too indulgent - focusing on VFX and set pieces and Leggy moments, the result was still good because he still had to tie that stuff in with the parts he'd shot when the budget was tighter.
Then King Kong showed how PJ had gone VFX mad, but it's a story that he really loves, so he sort of knew what he was doing - but he did have to pay a fine for going way over budget with the VFX.
There have been a few interviews where people have asked PJ about the shift in tone between The Hobbit and LotR and PJ doesn't seem to understand that there is a shift, he just responds with (basically) "well, now with the technology we can do anything, so why not" with apparently no understanding of how that affects the tone or "reality" of the movie.
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Well
[