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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 1:46pm
Post #1 of 44
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'What Say You' ~ The Hobbit Movie ~ Reports, Rumours & Rumblings ~ Howard Shore to score the Hobbit ~ Jan 08
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This is just too good a rumbling not to post about ... 
Earl and Magpie, on a thread in the Main section page have hinted that Douglas Adams' blog contains some very strong pointers to the possibility of Howard composing the score for the Hobbit Movie ... and I cant imagine that if that is true, he not doing both Movies ....
I hope it is OK to post over Magpies quote .. and give Douglas' site address here as well, so you can have a look ...
So the question for comment is
Do you think this rumbling has some credibility?
Would your choice of composer be Howard Shore to do both movies?
If not Howard Shore, who would be your choice?
If you choose Howard Shore as the composer - Do you think some of the theme music from LOTR will re-appear in the Hobbit and the second movie?
(Im not calling it a Bridge Movie - as that title really ticks me off!! grrrr!!)
Doug Adams blogspot: http://themusicofthelordoftheringsfilms.blogspot.com/...thread-jan-2008.html
The Main thread by Earl: http://newboards.theonering.net/...70523=View+Flat+Mode
Earls thread:
Over at the Ongoing discussion at his blog, Doug was asked:
Any comments on De Toro and the effect on the composer choice?
To which he replied (in classic Doug fashion  ):
I was first passed word of this about a month ago.
Shore is a huge Del Toro fan, and Del Toro is a huge Shore fan. It is a good time to be a Tolkien fan.
Magpies post:
just found his entry on his main page which just says in large gold type, A long time ago, in an underground realm, where there are no lies or pain, there lived... and then as a comment he just added a smile. I had to google the phrase to figure out what it meant. Although I knew it was a hint that developments were in the works I wasn't entirely sure it referred to the Hobbit until I got my google results. I came here immediately to post and found you've been awake longer. :-) I agree with you that Doug would not be posting something like this without real news going on behind the scenes.
So 'What Say You' ...
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
(This post was edited by Elven on Jan 29 2008, 1:56pm)
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jan 29 2008, 2:49pm
Post #2 of 44
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Do you think this rumbling has some credibility?
Getting a good script together is the most important part of pre-production. Talking composers and even directors is like putting the cart before the horse. No matter how good the music or directing is, if the script is bad, the movie is going to be bad. Sounds like the studios need to get their priorities right. This ain't good.
Would your choice of composer be Howard Shore to do both movies?
Sure.
If not Howard Shore, who would be your choice?
Then I’d go with either Maurice Jarre or John Barry.
If they couldn’t be coaxed out of retirement then I’d go with Harold Faltermeyer or Mark Isham.
Danny Elfman or John Carpenter could be interesting.
But, please, please, please, most definitely not Randy Newman. There are very few composers whose soundtracks can ruin a film, but he’s right at the top of that list. Especially if he sings.
If you choose Howard Shore as the composer - Do you think some of the theme music from LOTR will re-appear in the Hobbit and the second movie?
One would hope not. I think of “The Shire Theme” as distinctly “Frodo’s Theme”. It’s a bit too bittersweet to use as “Bilbo’s Theme”. I suppose some themes might justifiably creep into the second film, though.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 3:02pm
Post #3 of 44
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Darkstone ... just a question ...
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I understand what you mean about prioritizing and carts before horses ... with this sort of rumbling, and the hint that this Del Toro news was around a month ago from Doug Adams ... do you think they already have a structure (like a basic model) for an evolving script to be placed into, and from that there is the possibility that some of the music, or at least the themes of some of the compositions are possible to develop then ...
My impression has been that maybe there is a form of a script already ... to work the pre-production off at least for bones and basics ...
Any thoughts on that?
anyone else want to join in and comment on this as well?
What would be the minimal requirements for a composer (someone like Shore) to get moving on this project?
Cheers Elven
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 29 2008, 3:10pm
Post #4 of 44
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comes toward the end of the filming. LOTR was a little unusual because three movies were being filmed at once, so the score had to be developed a little sooner so the first movie had music.
I don't think there's much of an actual script yet, more of an outline. I would be fairly certain that no dialogue has been written, and the final list of characters is still pending (secondary characters are probably still being reviewed to see if they will be finally included). Peter developed enough to pitch the story to the studios, but what he has isn't close to a working script.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Jan 29 2008, 3:21pm
Post #5 of 44
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to LOTR was to work on the sounds of each culture/environment, etc. Gad, I can't get caught up in this discussion or I will get nothing done today. So forgive me for not going to find some quotes to back up what I want to say (and can often only vaguely remember well). And I don't have the vocabulary to express myself.
But Howard wrote suites of music for the Shire, for example. He established basic structures before he ever started work on the actual score. And before he did any writing at all, he was researching historical/cultural music. And, I can't remember for sure, but I think he was researching the book.
So I feel there's plenty Howard could be doing w/o any real direction towards the movie yet. He can't know that the research he does on X will play out in the final score, but I think he does the research so that he can approach the project with as broad an understanding as possible. And for myself, the more heads up I get that I will be 'designing a folder' the more I can think about folders in general even before I get any parameters on the actual project.
For those with more time, they could check out the comment section of my website for some of what I'm trying to say. I seem to remember some discussion of this on the Spinning on Air program.
There also might be some discussion about his pre-scoring process in the Music from the Movies magazine devoted to the LOTR soundtrack. If I get a chance at some other point, I could look through that.
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 3:23pm
Post #6 of 44
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Shore saying 'something' ... about having a Hobbit tune in his head ... or something like that ... ages ago, it could have even been on a commentary or some other insight programme ....
I wonder if would have some idea 'regadless' for the feel of the Hobbit movie? I think he would.
hmmm, I think there would be some dialogue written, even in a bear outline ... but like the LOTR, I think they would be expecting constant changes to the script once shooting started ... , but as you say, a working script - I think the same.
Thanks Entmaiden!
Cheers
Elven x
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jan 29 2008, 3:29pm
Post #7 of 44
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Great Questions!
Do you think this rumbling has some credibility? YES, YEPPERS, UH-HUH :D
Would your choice of composer be Howard Shore to do both movies? YES, YEPPERS, UH-HUH :D
If not Howard Shore, who would be your choice? Make it a film without music. Period.
If you choose Howard Shore as the composer - Do you think some of the theme music from LOTR will re-appear in the Hobbit and the second movie?
YES, YEPPERS, UH-HUH :D
It's the Shire theme that represents the Hobbits, right? I don't see why Shore couldn't use it for The Hobbit and the second film would have Gondor themes for the Aragorn/Arathorn moments, Rivendell theme for Rivendell moments... so many of the events in the second film could re-use existing themes.
I can't wait to hear the music for Mirkwood, Smaug and the Dwarves. You know there has to be a thematic thread for those! *twitch*
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 3:30pm
Post #8 of 44
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 you are banished forthwith from the What Say You Thread - Howard Shore!! until you have finished all your work and done the dishes today first!! LOL!! (only joking!) ... cause I love your insight into all of this, and all the information you have ....
Just point us in the direction then, and we will follow your lead .. errr .. links ..... I know you're busy!
Now back to work with you!!
*cracks fiery balrog whip*
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Earl
Forum Admin
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Jan 29 2008, 3:31pm
Post #9 of 44
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From what I know of LOTR's soundtrack
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I think it isn't too early to get a composer on board for these movies.
1. Firstly, we know that pre-production is (or rather, was supposed to) start off ASAP. Now just because we have no news about anything, doesn't mean nothing is happening behind the scenes. I don't know much about how this all works, but I'm sure there's something like pre-pre-production that has to do with having a vision and a thought process, and making it accessible when you’re working in a collaboration of this magnitude. So I daresay, a lot of things have already been put into place, we just don't know about it. One of the things that struck me the other day was the Hobbiton set. Didn't they plant the grass etc. almost a year before filming for FOTR began, so that the hills and fields would have a weathered look? I was wondering when they'd start "recreating Hobbiton". With filming scheduled to begin in 2009, and seeing as Hobbiton has remained the way it was for centuries, this almost seems like a no-brainer. And how about
recreating Bag End? Another no-brainer? I’m sure stuff like this has been thought about, and will manifest itself overnight, so to speak, in tangibility.
2. Secondly, while the storyline for FOTR was (for the most part) set in stone, so to speak, TTT and ROTK went through numerous changes; and Shore worked on the scores in real-time, collaborating with PJ even via video conferencing. Many times Shore wrote music to scenes that hadn’t been filmed yet, but whose vision was passed on to him by PJ. At this stage of The Hobbit, its not too early to sign-on Shore as a composer – because it simply doesn’t mean he’s gonna start scoring right away. On the contrary, it gives him a 100% guarantee that he can go ahead and dream of the leitmotifs representing the characters, cultures and creatures (some of which will be definitely be returning). The music will need to be as much a part of the blend with LOTR as will be the characters and the overall “feel” of these new movies. In fact, part of the feel of LOTR was carried by nothing more than Shore’s score. A song like Bilbo’s Song has no visuals depicted in the films, yet it probably is one of the more poignant tunes in the entire trilogy (just my opinion).
3. Lastly, I think the scores for these movies will be very challenging for Shore – and not only because he’s set himself a very high precedent with LOTR’s, especially when it comes to returning themes. Because while Shore worked towards developing thematic ideas from their inception in FOTR to their resolution in ROTK, he’ll have to now work at developing returning themes from The Hobbit. The start, which was FOTR, is now no longer the start. It’s somewhere inbetween (for example, in the case of the Hobbit themes). It means he needs as much time as any other “department” working on these movies to be introduced to the visions, to find his footing in the grand scheme of things, and lastly to embrace the scope of this daunting project. He doesn’t necessarily need to start scoring right away, he needs to be able to start thinking about it; so as I said, its not too early to get him on board.
We should remember that a lot of things happen behind the scenes, as we’re apt to forget. Doug now tells us he was aware of the Del Toro rumblings a month ago, and we were all almost-expecting Raimi, while toying with the idea of Del Toro. The resolution between NL and PJ was going on since July last year, and while were anticipated rumours, we suddenly saw an official announcement in December. Oh yes, a lot of stuff happens that we aren’t aware of. And of course, they might not say anything official regarding the composer for a few months, but it doesn’t mean Shore hasn’t already been roped in for the project.
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 3:37pm
Post #10 of 44
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I opened your post and it was twitching ...
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so it must be you!!
The music part of the Movies was so exciting! and I agree that there is something so very special about the thermatics of the score, and how they transport you to places in Middle-Earth ... and the Music for the Lonely Mountain!! WOW!! cant wait to hear that!!
Oh I dooooo hope it Howard as well!!
... and if so,
I wonder who Howard would choose to contribute their voices to the soundtrack?
*falls of chair just thinking about it*
Thanks gramma!
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jan 29 2008, 4:06pm
Post #11 of 44
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..as entmaiden points out typically the composer scores the movie towards the end of shooting. Usually they first start by watching a rough cut of the film with the director and bounce ideas back and forth. The composer will then score his music to match the edit of the film. And often, when the director edits the rough cut down to the final cut, in some scenes he'll edit the film to match the score. (Steven Spielberg will often do that with a John Williams' score. For example the chase scene in ET.)
Occasionally this director-composer collaboration will start before filming. The composer will view the completed storyboards, visit on the sets, and sit in on the day's rushes with the director. All the while, like Magpie says, the composer is probably also doing research into different types of cultures and music. And he's probably also composing little pieces to show the director the direction of his ideas. And sometimes, the director will sit in during the final studio session and make suggestions. This is basically how Jackson and Shore did it. But note that they had a script, a storyboard, some concept art, and pictures of some scouted locations for Shore to start off with.
Now for a composer to score a movie before shooting is virtually unheard off. The only times I can think of it being done is when Ennio Morricone scored Sergio Leone's films "Once Upon a Time in the West" (1968) and "Once Upon a Time in America" (1984). After each film was shot Leone edited the film to fit the music. (!!!) But of course Morricone and Leone had worked together on several films before, so one can assume they knew each other's artistic visions quite well. On the other hand, we do know that since Jackson dumped Shore's final score of "King Kong", those two aren't always on the same artistic wavelength.
My impression has been that maybe there is a form of a script already ... to work the pre-production off at least for bones and basics ...
There is undoubtedly a 5-6 page film treatment from around 1998. Jackson was going to do The Hobbit before LOTR but a deal with UA/MGM could never be worked out. (Ironically the sticking point was over which studio would cover the losses if the film flopped. Needless to say that doesn't seem to be a concern now.)
What would be the minimal requirements for a composer (someone like Shore) to get moving on this project?
Like with Leone and Morricone, it is entirely possible that Jackson could tell Shore to score the movie now before shooting even begins. But I'd wager there would be a lot of resentment from whomever is later chosen to direct. They're not going to like having the movie already blocked out by the composer.
Like I said, at the very least I'd think Shore wouldn't be able to get started without at least a working script, and preferably with the director to begin brainstorming with. Anything before that would probably be wasted effort.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 4:24pm
Post #12 of 44
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Lots of great thoughts there ...
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Earl ... a very intersting read!
you got me thinking about this in particular ... yet this is off topic a bit ... but maybe we can come back to this later ...
One of the things that struck me the other day was the Hobbiton set. Didn't they plant the grass etc. almost a year before filming for FOTR began, so that the hills and fields would have a weathered look? I was wondering when they'd start "recreating Hobbiton". With filming scheduled to begin in 2009, and seeing as Hobbiton has remained the way it was for centuries, this almost seems like a no-brainer. And how about
recreating Bag End? Another no-brainer? I’m sure stuff like this has been thought about, and will manifest itself overnight, so to speak, in tangibility.
Surely the Hobbiton location will be used again ... though there is not much really to film there - most of it happens inside of Bag End set, which Peter has in his garden ...
The rest would basically be new locations, and much of it done in the facilities ...
I wondered if someone who has been on the Hobbiton tour could comment ... is there a replica Bage End on the property? .. or the facade?
http://www.redcarpet-tours.com/...fm?content_id=131766
The next things was going to the Red Carpet Tours for 2009 (NZ LOTR Tour) and seeing if there is any change in their scheduling from this year to next - there is a change in October November 2009 with a gap of just short of 5 weeks .... the longest gap in a 2 year shedule ...
Now I am just ripe for rumour mongering aren't I LOL!! ... but if they were going to film the Hobbiton location, maybe it would be about then - towards the end of the filming (or later in the year when the weather is a bit better) ... Im not sure what time of year they filmed Hobbiton beofre, but for light and continuity .. it could be about the same time of year maybe? ... especially for plants and stuff ... and who knows... maybe theres no a great deal of filming to be done there ... or maybe Red Carpet Tours are going on holidays themselves and are just taking a break ...
But I think that preparing Hobbiton for filming might take some time ... and you dont need a busload of tourists turning up on location ... I dont know how theyre going to do this ... but it should be interesting ... they could probably film what they need in a week ... so much for my rumour mongering
Now back to the regular Howard Shore Broadcast!
Cheers Elven
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Jan 29 2008, 4:27pm
Post #13 of 44
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a search for an old thread on main...
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... should show you a question someone asked about the museum exhibits and where they were now. Apparently (IIRC) they items have all been pulled from circulation and returned to the someone? don't remember who. That causes some slight speculation at the time of whether this had to do with them being potentially reused.
I think this thread was within the last month.
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
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Jan 29 2008, 4:31pm
Post #14 of 44
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that the 5-6 page film treatment that was created in 1998 or so has been updated, but it probably still remains basically an outline. I remember Peter, Fran and Philippa spending a morning speculating about how the Hobbit story would be told in a movie after some announcement by New Line, after the LOTR movies were finished. I think they were working on King Kong and interrupted that to imagine The Hobbit. That's when Peter said in a later interview that the Hobbit poses problems as a movie because the hero (Bard) is not seen until right before his big moment. In a movie he would have to be introduced much earlier so the climax of the story makes sense. Then there's the problem that the big battle happens after Smaug is killed. Anyway, all those musings from Peter emerged after this brainstorming session between the three of them, but then they went back to work on Kong.
I would think that Peter has updated the treatment based on how he did LOTR, plus the outcome of the initial brainstorming session. I don't think there's much beyond that. Peter's been busy with other projects and I can't imagine he would spend what little free time he had writing a script when there was little chance he would be able to use it.
I learned from Doug Adams at ORC that Howard and Peter's collaboration was unusual, and that most film scores are done after the filming is primarily finished. But I would think at least a partially completed script would be needed before any real work could be done. And I agree about the director - I don't think Peter would go too far in preparing either a script or a score without input from the director of the movie.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 4:36pm
Post #15 of 44
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that was some post! Thanks for replying!
I think after working on some of OhioHobbits threads in Movie Discussion, I had come to the conclusion that most of the pre-work, stuff like script, storyboards, and ideas for LOTR were done in an unconventional manner - schedule wise, and priority wise (everything was a priority!!) many of these overlapped and were done in colaboration - like feeding off each other. Its possibly why I think there is alread alot of work done (structure-wise) with the Hobbit and the Second Film, and thus a music outline (not to say there is music - but as yourself, entmaiden, Earl and Magpie, have explained) ...
It makes me wonder then if such people as Alan Lee and John Howe would be ready to collaborate agin to keep the same feel ... wonder ehat theyre up to next year ...LOL!!
Thanks for the clarification Darkstone!
Cheers
Elven
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Altaira
Superuser
Jan 29 2008, 4:51pm
Post #17 of 44
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This post had the update. It's my understanding that all the LOTR sets are owned by either PJ and/or New Line and are in storage at the Miramar studios in Wellington.
I'm not sure how or where you were trying to post. The Search Posts button above is working just fine.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
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Jan 29 2008, 4:56pm
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was on a sheep farm, and was returned back to it's original state after the movies were filmed. The owner does allow some groups to visit, but it does not look much like the movie site.
If they were to use the same location, Peter and co. would have to enter into a new contract with the owner, then re-develop the site. Who knows how much that will cost.
Peter has the full-sized Bag End at his house, but the hobbit-sized copy is either destroyed or in storage.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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deej
Dor-Lomin
Jan 29 2008, 5:04pm
Post #19 of 44
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This is what I was told by the Hobbiton tour guide:
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I wouldn't take this as a definite answer, but when I took a tour of the Hobbiton set last year, the tour guide had said that yes, New Line does own the sets that are still on the property, and is letting the property owners 'use' them for tours. The guide did also say that the owners had said they if they ever wanted to come back and use the location for 'The Hobbit' they wouldn't have a problem letting them.
Dragoncon 2008: August 29th - September 1st in Atlanta, Georgia
http://www.dragoncon.org
(This post was edited by deej on Jan 29 2008, 5:06pm)
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 5:18pm
Post #20 of 44
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 I went into search and that kept coming up ...
I couldnt access Doug Adams site either tonight ...
... gremlins ...
thankyou for the link
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 5:22pm
Post #21 of 44
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There was also a rumour post around Oct Nov from someone who knew someone who knew someone ... that New Line were scouting locations ... now I wonder ... though it was debunked ... it wasnt long after the rumopurs started to gather pace ...
we now need a location speculation thread LOL!!
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 5:26pm
Post #22 of 44
(878 views)
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.. and floral designer ... *shoots up hand*
Maybe then there will be less construction to be filmed this time around ... though the front of Bag End was fairly neat garden wise - Sam had been busy
Thanks entmaiden!
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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squire
Gondolin
Jan 29 2008, 5:40pm
Post #23 of 44
(901 views)
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Jackson shows a very conventional mindset there - too bad The Hobbit doesn't fit conventions
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Peter said in a later interview that the Hobbit poses problems as a movie because the hero (Bard) is not seen until right before his big moment. In a movie he would have to be introduced much earlier so the climax of the story makes sense. Then there's the problem that the big battle happens after Smaug is killed.
So Bard would "have to" be in the movie earlier for the audience to understand who he is?
And the "big battle" which follows Smaug's death - as it should, since it is fought over his treasure - is a problem because it's "out of sequence"?
I hope Jackson comes to his senses and remembers his own remark (at some other point than this interview) that every time they tried to rearrange LotR to fit Hollywood conventions, it became weaker - while every time they stuck with Tolkien, it worked.
(And the big battle is not the climax of the book - the joke is that Bilbo is not even present for most of it - I'd like to see the film face up to that, rather than inflate it into some special effects nonsense that takes over the film to no dramatic purpose.)
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Elven
Doriath
Jan 29 2008, 6:09pm
Post #24 of 44
(882 views)
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I hope Jackson comes to his senses and remembers his own remark (at some other point than this interview) that every time they tried to rearrange LotR to fit Hollywood conventions, it became weaker - while every time they stuck with Tolkien, it worked.
I also think that the writers learned that Tolkien had the formula right as well – so we may not see as much diversion in the film – though a creative adaptation is always welcome.
Barrie Osbourne: “They tried a lot of different things and sometimes they were going to go (thought of going) in a different direction from the book, and every time they tried to do that gradually they would find that actually Tolkien knew what he was doing with the story and they would start going back to where he had started.”
Peter Jackson: “An interesting phenomena.. with our script writing is – every draft that we wrote, it became closer and closer to what (what) was in the book. It became nearer to Tolkien.”
Philippa also mentioned something along this lines as well ... its in the Underlying Movie commentary ...
The Shire was never the same after
Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 29 2008, 6:19pm
Post #25 of 44
(887 views)
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That's one of the common criticisms of the movies
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That Peter follows Screenwriting 101 conventions a little too slavishly. I'm not saying their outline changed the book around so that the Hobbit movie would fit the standard conventions, but that they discussed those issues as problematic. So Peter might already have come to his senses - we won't know until someone releases more details about the planning for the movies.
The Hobbit doesn't fit conventions even as literature, which is also one of the criticisms leveled at Tolkien. The climax of the book, Smaug's death, is really followed by a second climax in Bilbo handing over the Arkenstone. That's hard to translate into a movie that appeals to an audience wider than book geeks. Since they have to make at least $300 million just to break even, Peter's going to have to find a way to stay true to the book and fit into at least some of the standard movie conventions.
I don't have a problem introducing Bard earlier than he appears in the books. I think it enriches the story if I know there's a sub-plot in Lake town while Bilbo and the dwarves are seeking the Lonely Mountain. Book-firsters will know that, but movie-firsters (who will be the overwhelming majority of the audience) won't, so the movie needs to show them Bard earlier than he appears in the book.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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