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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 18 2013, 4:38am
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Is it my imagination, my linguistic impairment (especially with accents of the British Isles), or do Thorin, Kili and Fili sound different from the other Dwarves? As in, everyone else has that lovely Scottish brogue going, and the "royals" sound more Shakespearean or something...
Go outside and play...
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Cirashala
Doriath
Jan 18 2013, 5:16am
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Well, Richard Armitage is from England, Aidan Turner is from Dublin area in Ireland, and Dean O'Gorman is supposedly from New Zealand, so I can imagine that their accents would be different from some of the other actors. I know that James Nesbitt (Bofur) is from northern Ireland, and he has a much thicker accent than Aidan who is from southern Ireland, but I believe he now lives in London, so maybe he is starting to lose the accent to a British accent.
It would be interesting to see how accents are affected by words though. Sometimes dialogue can affect accents.
For instance, I don't know where you are from, but here in the United States there is a regional accent from the southeastern US that we call a "southern drawl" that is very very pronounced. Yet many of the people who speak with this accent use phrases like y'all (you all) and ain't (isn't) and honeychile (honey child) and gonna (going to) etc. So when someone with a southern drawl speaks in proper grammar, sometimes it can be more difficult to discern their accent unless it's particularly heavy. And this is not meant as an insult to anyone who may read this who live in that southeastern US-my mom lived in Texas for a couple years and when she starts talking in the drawl (she has been away from there so long and was there so briefly that she doesn't have a heavy accent at all) she uses those phrases and others like them and her drawl becomes far more apparent.
So perhaps it was the way the lines were written coupled with the actor's actual accents (and whether or not they attempted to try to speak in heavier accents as opposed to it being their natural accent) that may have made them sound a little different. Plus, they were royal line, so perhaps they were slightly better educated, and in interviews RA has even said that he drew a lot of inspiration and did his "homework" with Shakespearean classics.
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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marillaraina
Nargothrond
Jan 18 2013, 5:26am
Post #3 of 29
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Is it my imagination, my linguistic impairment (especially with accents of the British Isles), or do Thorin, Kili and Fili sound different from the other Dwarves? As in, everyone else has that lovely Scottish brogue going, and the "royals" sound more Shakespearean or something...
They purposely chose different accents for the different groups of dwarves. Only Balin and Dwalin are actually "Scottish" dwarves. :) Bofur, Bombur and Bifur are all supposed to have Irish accents, except of course Bifur only speaks Dwarvish and Bombur may end up barely speaking at all. I'm not quite sure what Nori, Dori and Ori are supposed to sound like, some sort of English.
Thorin, Kili and Fili do have English accents, they are supposed to sound a bit more Northern England , but I think that's easier for Richard because it's closer to his own, Kili and Fili have it a bit but it's not very strong probably because it's kind of hard to fake an accent like that so better to err on the side of doing less than doing more and sounding ridiculous. And it can be explained easily enough by them being raised in the Blue Mountains.
I forgot Oin and Gloin, to tell the truth I'm not sure what their accents are, I can't remember them. Gimli was little Scottish sounding wasn't he? Maybe Welsh?
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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 18 2013, 5:27am
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Cool!
I seem to remember James Nesbitt talking about "dialect coaching" in rehearsals and that he didn't need it much, as he already had the Scottish brogue they were using for the Dwarves. I thought I heard Fili's adorable Kiwiness coming through once or twice, but I could be wrong. Met a nice lady once, where I work, asked what part of England she was from... she said, "New Zealand."
I'm in Pennsylvania, which is smack in the middle of a mess of different fading local accents: the Amish, the Marylanders, the Viginians, the New Englanders, and you may have heard of Smith and Tangier Islands in the Chesapeake Bay where there is still a variety of English spoken which has been described as either dating back to 1600s England, or is the actual way colonists sounded here in the 1600s. I have spent a week on Chincoteague Island and come back sounding slightly southernish. I think Texas is a sort of Force of Nature all its own.
I keep thinking Thorin, Fili and Kili may have purposely been left with a different more classical sounding accent.
Now I have to go see it again!
Go outside and play...
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Eledhwen
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Jan 18 2013, 8:03am
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Fili and Kili have definitely got a slightly less strong version of Armitage's own accent going on - and as a Yorkshire lass myself I thought they did the accents well considering the actors havve both got pretty strong accents themselves.
I also heard Gloin as Scottish, along with Balin and Dwalin (again, Stott and McTavish are just using their own accent, surely?). James Nesbitt appears to be simply using his own Irish accent for Bofur. And Ori at least is "English". So it seems to me that just the Kiwis and Aidan Turner have actually had to alter their normal speaking voices for the film, with everyone else just talking as they normally talk.
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Roheryn
Dor-Lomin
Jan 18 2013, 9:07am
Post #6 of 29
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Nice to hear your take on it, Eledhwen, given that you're a Yorkshire native.
My poor ear is still working on being able to reliably discriminate amongst Kiwi, Aussie, and British accents. I can pick up some of the easier variations in British accents, but most Scottish and Irish accents sound pretty similar. So I'd taken all the Dwarf accents to be vaguely Scottish-sounding, with some just sounding "more Scottish" than others. Neat that there's a bit more to it than that!
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jan 18 2013, 9:20am
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I also heard Thorin, Fili and Kili as Yorkshire, and the others as you say (as someone whose own accent doesn't belong to any country in particular but is definitely southern!)
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ArtCorner
Lindon
Jan 18 2013, 10:02am
Post #8 of 29
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Why they gave Gloin a Scottish accent while Gimli spoke with a Welsh one, pedantic I know but I noticed it.
Ori, Nori and Dori have rather general southern English accents but Nori at one point sounds positively cockney!
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Jan 18 2013, 10:04am
Post #9 of 29
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It's an interesting touch to have regional dialect.
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Remember all. .13 come from different regions..
Of the Blue Mountains.
This is. .
their first " Meet up ".. at BagEnd.
sort of like Emmissaries
sent by their own tribes.
Reflects: kind of like?
different regions of Great Britain and its allies.
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jan 18 2013, 10:07am
Post #10 of 29
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John Rhys Davies is Welsh himself, but as Gimli the accent he uses is very broad Scots, so it makes sense that his father should also be Scottish.
(PS - in my previous post 'country' should be 'county' - southern English, no particular county)
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jan 18 2013, 10:47am
Post #11 of 29
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The accents are meant to illustrate that they come from "all over" (apart from the fact that they are stuck with a Scottish accent for Gloin after Gimli swerved from a Welsh to a Scottish accent and James Nesbitt is totally unable to anything other than his strong Northern Irish accent),
Richard Armitage does a good Yorkshire accent (his father comes from there) and Kili and Fili sensibly imitate him. It is considered to be a very attractive accent, implying strength, grit and reliability, but it is not considered "posh" in the sense that no member of the current Royal Family would speak like this. I think that the "Shakespearean" quality that comes across when RA speaks is all down to his resonant voice and majestic manner, LOL!
Dwalin and Balin have Scottish accents, and it makes sense for them to use an accent that comes easily to the actors although they both do a good English RP accent when required (as can Aidan Turner).
And, yes, they do seem to be divided up into family groups which makes it strange that Dori also has a Yorkshire accent (and discussed this with Prince Charles when he visited NZ) but Ori has a London accent (don't remember hearing Nori). Perhaps Ori grew up in the south and Dori came down from the north to fuss over him when his mother died, LOL! Or perhaps the actor couldn't do a Northern accent.
And so I make that - potentially - 6 from "England", three from "Northern Ireland" and four from "Scotland". Sadly, the Welsh accent is omitted again.
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Jan 18 2013, 6:09pm
Post #12 of 29
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Perhaps Bard will speak with a Welsh accent
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Luke Evans is Welsh but I don't know whether he could slip back into a valleys accent. It would be nice to hear but I suppose wouldn't really fit with the rest of film Dale (though a valleys accent for a city named after a valley would be appropriate, no?).
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Eledhwen
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Jan 18 2013, 6:39pm
Post #13 of 29
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I have trouble with Kiwi and Aussie
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Even after having lived in NZ! If I randomly meet someone it takes me a while to work out if they're Aussie or Kiwi. I have to wait for them to say something like "bin" or "pen" before I get it. And I can't tell one American accent from another, although I'm getting better with Canadians and Americans as I row with a few Canadians.
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Eledhwen
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Jan 18 2013, 6:39pm
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The use of "laddie" by Gimli is a dead giveaway. If he was Welsh he'd be calling people "boyo". 
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Eledhwen
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Jan 18 2013, 6:44pm
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Thinking about it, Welsh would have made a lot of sense for the dwarves - there's a strong mining link, at least! Maybe they tried and none of the actors could pull it off.
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Gelir
Nevrast
Jan 18 2013, 6:58pm
Post #16 of 29
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I thought of Kili as having an Irish accent, and this was on m first viewing before I knew the actor actually was Irish. I thought Fili might also be, but went back and forth on that in my head. So it's interesting that Kili is not actually supposed to have an Irish accent. Looking back on it, it may just be a few words that gave me that impression. For example, words like "must," "just," "us," "dozens," etc.
Maybe most of the time Kili has his accent reigned in but in some of those words it came through, and that's what I picked up on.
Dwalin and Balin sounded Scottish, Ori, Dori, and Nori some sort of English, Bofur Irish, and I wasn't as sure about Oin and Gloin.
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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 18 2013, 7:34pm
Post #17 of 29
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Even after having lived in NZ! If I randomly meet someone it takes me a while to work out if they're Aussie or Kiwi. I have to wait for them to say something like "bin" or "pen" before I get it. And I can't tell one American accent from another, although I'm getting better with Canadians and Americans as I row with a few Canadians.
I'm in Pennsylvania (not far from Canada, actually), and have hung out with Canadians without having a clue they weren't American. Now Southerners and Texans, that's a different country...
Thanks for the great insights into the (very sexy) British Isles accents!
Go outside and play...
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jan 18 2013, 8:15pm
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that you've picked on the words - "just, must, us, dozens" - that sound particularly "Yorkshire" to me (and I'm living in Yorkshire at the moment). I smiled when I heard them pronouncing these words and assumed that the voice coach had been hard at work on those particular vowels in order to make them sound similar to RA. If I want to sound vaguely like someone from Yorkshire, those are the vowels that I home in on.
Do you mind if I ask you if you're from the UK? Non UKers, when they hear a regional English accent, because it doesn't sound RP, often seem to assume that it's Irish. For a Yorkshireman to be accused of sounding like an Irishman is just as annoying as Kiwis and Australians being mixed up or Canadians and those from the States. Aidan Turner is excellent at doing accents other than Irish and he doesn't sound Irish at all to me in this role.
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Eledhwen
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Jan 18 2013, 9:57pm
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Partly because it's those vowels (and the short a in bath, grass, etc) that I'm grimly hanging on to as the only bit of Yorkshire I have in my own accent! I didn't get any Irish from Kili, and I've spent a LOT of time watching Irish Aidan Turner in Being Human so I think I'd have noticed.
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Kirly
Menegroth
Jan 19 2013, 3:07am
Post #21 of 29
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James Nesbitt is totally unable to anything other than his strong Northern Irish accent I don't think it's an inability. I heard him on an interview (i've listened to so many I don't remember which so I don't have a link) where he said that he prefers to speak in his own native accent because of the previous history of so much violence (this is a paraphrase as best i can remember it). i loved his performance in AUJ.
I heard Nesbitt on another interview (on youtube, he and Aidan Turner together) in which he said the others were all doing Irish accents. these might have been the same interview.
I love the irish and the scottish accents. i find them all just lovely to my ear.
When I went on a LOTR Movie location tour of NZ, i became able to differentiate between the Australians, the Kiwis, the South African, and the British accents. not sure if i could do it now quite as easily.
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jan 19 2013, 2:39pm
Post #22 of 29
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LOL, Kirli. If you want to find an excuse
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for your inability to do any other accent, as Nesbitt has done here, you can always dig up "The Cause". Makes you look noble. Sorry, don't approve, nor do I believe him. (Otherwise, he's a good actor and has excellent comic timing.)
And when he said that "the others" were dong Irish accents, I'm sure he meant the other two in his family group, because it's obvious to this Brit that a few of them are doing Scottish accents and the rest have regional English accents. As I say, non Brits often find it difficult to tell the difference. If the actor is not speaking with a "posh" or a Cockney accent then he must be Irish.
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Gelir
Nevrast
Jan 19 2013, 2:50pm
Post #23 of 29
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Definitely (definitely) not saying you two are wrong!
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That was just how I heard it, but it was based on my own limited interactions. I have a pretty good ear for accents, but only ones I've identified previously. I'm sure I've heard Yorkshire accents, but never identified them as such.
I had two Irish neighbors (brother and sister), and their "u" sounds (as in must) were just like Kili's. They didn't say everything like Kili though - they would have said "it's perfectly safe, we'll be right behind you" differently for example. But who knows; maybe they were from a part of Ireland that pronounces those words the same way, or maybe their own accents had external influences.
If someone from Yorkshire and someone who lives there says Kili is pronouncing those words like a Yorkshire native, I'm not going to argue. :)
What do you think about Thorin's pronunciation of those words? People are saying that Thorin has the same accent, and his short "u" sounds are different than Kili's. ("There must be a cave nearby" vs "You must be Mr. Baggins").
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Eledhwen
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Jan 19 2013, 5:14pm
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Armitage just has a broader accent
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It's the difference between me, who grew up in Yorkshire and then moved away for university, and my friends who have stayed there, IMHO. Fili and Kili spent less time in Erebor than Thorin did to get their accents bedded in!
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accents
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