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Kevinf
Registered User
Jul 23 2008, 6:58pm
Post #1 of 14
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Drogo and Primula
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What are your thoughts on Frodo's parents showing up in the second movie? Drogo and Primula Baggins met their end "drownded" on the Brandywine River, according to the Gaffer. Did they know Gandalf? Primula was the youngest daughter of Old Took - she might have been up for a little adventure before that. We don't know why she and Drogo left Brandy Hall to go boating on the river ("after dinner and in the moonlight"), leaving Frodo behind. Thoughts on their appearance?
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jul 23 2008, 7:06pm
Post #2 of 14
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Tolkien meant for some things to be "offstage".
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Why did he do that? And to what degree should films adapted from his work try to match that effect?
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ArathornJax
Rohan
Jul 23 2008, 7:59pm
Post #3 of 14
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We don't know why she and Drogo left Brandy Hall to go boating on the river ("after dinner and in the moonlight"), leaving Frodo behind. from the quote I think I can figure out why she and Drogo left Brandy Hall and Frodo there . . . . could be they wanted some alone time from all the relatives and from their son. Sounds like a romantic evening went bad. No, we don't need to see it as the scene would serve no purpose.
" . . . (we are ) too engrossed in thinking of everything as a preparation or training or making one fit -- for what? At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts."
J.R.R. Tolkien in his 6 October 1940 letter to his son Michael Tolkien.
Come over to the LOTR Movie Thread and discuss the 1981 BBC Adaptation of the LOTR.
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Kevinf
Registered User
Jul 23 2008, 8:35pm
Post #4 of 14
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Who will be the Hobbits in the second movie? Bilbo's part is the first movie, Frodo is just a child. Could Frodo's parents Drogo and Primula be the Hobbits that star in the 2nd movie? Could they accompany Gandalf while he attacks Dol Guldur? It would be strange (and changing a successful forumula) to not have Hobbits in a LOTR movie. These are two important Baggins', with serious ties to the characters the audience already knows and relates to: Bilbo's brother and sister-in-law, Frodo's mother and father (Primula is even a Brandybuck, like Merry, and granddaugher of a Took, like Pippin). We don't know anything about them - they could easily have gone on the adventure with Gandalf and died at the end of it.
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Jazmine
Tol Eressea
Jul 23 2008, 8:48pm
Post #5 of 14
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but I don't think it would work. From what I gather, Gandalf was alone when he entered Dol Gulder, and Drogo & Primula drowned on the river, in the Shire. Gandalf, along with the rest of the White Council, attack Dol Gulder, having hobbits there isn't necessary. There were plenty of battles and events that went on in Middle Earth that didn't involve hobbits!
Plus, the thing that makes Bilbo, and later, Frodo and his companions, "special" amongst hobbits is the fact they went off and had adventures. That was most out of character. (Though I think perhaps Bullroarer Took was fond of adventures.) Aside from that, hobbits tend to keep themselves to themselves, and certainly don't go off meddling in the affairs of the Big People! 
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor
Jul 24 2008, 3:39am
Post #6 of 14
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I am really hoping to see them.
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Just a short scene, showing them as a happy family with young Frodo. I think it would be very touching. Then after that maybe some other short scenes of Frodo's childhood, and him going to live with Bilbo.
I certainly don't want to see them drown or anything like that (as someone asked me in a prior thread), but it would be nice to see their faces, to see the love they have for their son. The audience could learn about their deaths indirectly, from hearing other hobbits talking about it or something.
In LOTR, we see how wise and noble Frodo is, but we don't really know how he got that way. And I think probably a lot of it is because he was raised by people with similar qualities who loved him. I think it would help the audience's understanding of Frodo to see some of the people he learned from when he was young.
"There was among them a family of high repute, for it was large and wealthier than most, and it was ruled by a grandmother of the folk, stern and wise in old lore, such as they had. The most inquisitive and curious minded of that family was called Sméagol."
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 24 2008, 4:53am
Post #7 of 14
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The connective tissue is missing.
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Except for Gandalf's periodic (and uneventful) visits to the Shire, there was no contact between the hobbits and outside events or characters. I don't mind illustrating (even amplifying) events that are discussed in Appendices or elsewhere, but I would very much resent it if they invented interactions with the Shire that pretty plainly didn't happen in the texts we have.
Sunset, July 3, 2008
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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sador
Half-elven
Jul 24 2008, 9:48am
Post #8 of 14
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Primula was the youngest daughter of Old Took - she might have been up for a little adventure before that. She was the daughter of Gorbadoc Brandybuck and Mirabella Took; you might be confusing her with Belladonna, Bilbo's mother.
And being a Brandybuck accounts perfectly well for boating, although it's not advisable for a grossly overweight Baggins.
As for your question - if it can be worked out properly in the movie, I don't mind. Otherwise I wouldn't put this in.
"And we love them... they remind us of the youth of Men, as they were in the Elder days" - Faramir
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Gondorian_Ranger
Rivendell
Jul 24 2008, 11:07am
Post #9 of 14
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I don't think it's necessary to show their deaths or give them a part bigger than what they had in the book. As for having hobbits in the second film, is it not said in the appendices that Bilbo visited Rivendell from time to time after his adventure? He could have been at Rivendell when Estel's part there was taking place.
"The city of Osgiliath has been reclaimed, FOR GONDOR!"
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squire
Half-elven
Jul 24 2008, 12:09pm
Post #10 of 14
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Any scene of the famous boating party would have to be shot with reference to the already established Smeagol/Deagol fishing scene at the opening of RotK. Whether that's an opportunity or not, I'm not sure. I suspect not, because Jackson changed the latter scene to include Smeagol in the boat.
Symbolically, by using the Brandywine boating scene the filmmaker would be saying that Frodo's adoption by Bilbo paralleled the rediscovery of the Ring and the origins of Gollum - that all three "protagonists" were "born" in exactly similar circumstances in order to come together, etc. I don't think that's very good art, and it's certainly not from anything Tolkien wrote.
As with all questions of writing Film 2, the filmmaker must stick to two rules. Is the scene necessary for advancing the standalone story of Film 2? Or if not, is it really really necessary for enriching the story told in The Hobbit or in The Lord of the Rings films? The first requirement is the important one. It's not a good idea to put too many scenes in one movie that only make sense in the context of another movie. It quickly turns into padding that any (non-fan?) film viewer would resent.
Do we need to know more about Frodo than the LotR films tell us? Do his parents' death and his adoption by Bilbo need to be explained for the trilogy films to work "better" dramatically? Even the simple explanation that Bilbo gives us at the Party was cut from the final edit, and only released in the (padded for the fans) extended DVD edition.
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Patty
Immortal
Jul 24 2008, 2:02pm
Post #11 of 14
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Interesting question. I do wonder if...
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this would be the way to get a heavily made up Elijah Wood into the movie, for those who want that.
What I want, is to see Brandybuck Hall. I'd rather it were accomplished some other way, though.
Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.
(This post was edited by Patty on Jul 24 2008, 2:02pm)
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 24 2008, 2:55pm
Post #12 of 14
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the implication is that Frodo's parents weren't noble at all - Drogo apparently liked to visit his wife's family mostly because they served lots of food and he was very fond of eating! And even if there's no truth to the rumour that they drowned because they were each trying to get rid of the other, still it doesn't give you much confidence that they had a reputation for being wise and noble.
After their death, Frodo was left to run wild at Brandy Hall, according to the Gaffer. So the impression we get is that Bilbo's kindness saved Frodo from a wastrel's life, and that Frodo's nobility came from inside himself, against the odds, not because he'd had a perfect childhood.
None of this is in the LotR movies, so the filmmakers wouldn't have to follow the book version, of course. But I think it makes a more poignant origin for Frodo than simply having him inheriting his qualities from wise and noble parents.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Jettorex
Lorien
Jul 24 2008, 3:51pm
Post #13 of 14
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.....of how they could incorporate Hobbits in F2.
Perhaps the Frodo/parents / adoption by Bilbo storylines could be intertwined somehow with the Aragorn Ranger storyline of protecting the shire.
For example show a scene of above and then the next scene is of goblins watching (or spying?)from the woods/hills planning an attack which is thwarted by Aragorn with rangers.
Of course, they could incorporate scenes of Bilbo in the Rivendell scenes for F2 also.
I just think they need to have Hobbits in F2 (evethough from the apendices/source material they don't really play any part) without trying to "force them in"- to maintain a Hobbitty continuum throughout all the 5 movies.
Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure
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weaver
Half-elven
Jul 25 2008, 9:01pm
Post #14 of 14
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and if you really want to spice this up...
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..you could have Frodo's parents killed by Sauron, before people called him Sauron, you know, when he had no name...
And then, when they issue the super spectacular remastered 3-D edition of the trilogy in a few years, they can always insert a lightning bolt scar on Elijah Wood's forehead to make it all work seamlessly with Film 2...
Weaver
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