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DainPig
Mithlond
Nov 29 2015, 4:20am
Post #1 of 10
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Bolg killed Legolas's mother
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I think he did. When Legolas look at Bolg in Gundabad, he is like "Oh yeah, it was you!" And Legolas's mother died in Gundabad ("My mother died there")
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
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Mooseboy018
Hithlum
Nov 29 2015, 6:39am
Post #2 of 10
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I like to think he did, or at least he represents the orcs that were responsible for it. Having that thought in the back of my head makes the Legolas vs Bolg rivalry a little more bearable.
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Ilmatar
Nargothrond
Nov 29 2015, 8:05am
Post #3 of 10
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I read somewhere that when the events of The Hobbit took place, Legolas was about 2000 years old (someone here who knows better will hopefully correct if needed). Legolas must have lost his mother when he was very young, because there is "no memory" - even in his own mind, as I take it. If Bolg had killed his mother, Bolg should be older than Legolas. I don't know how long orcs live, but I'm pretty sure they were not immortal.
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Mooseboy018
Hithlum
Nov 29 2015, 8:25am
Post #4 of 10
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I guess it depends on how far we're willing to stretch our imaginations based on PJ's relative looseness with the canon in The Hobbit.
I honestly can't remember how long orcs are supposed to live or whether or not Tolkien delved very deep into the details of their mortality. I'm pretty sure he even considered changing their origins to being corrupted men rather than elves, but that was one of his later ideas that didn't end up in the published Silmarillion.
In the movie, Azog was meant to be a more "pure" orc in the sense that he was more genetically connected to his elvish roots (if that makes any sense at all, I think it was described in the chronicles books or the movie appendices). So Azog and his son could have been around for a while in the movie canon.
Or not.
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Ilmatar
Nargothrond
Nov 29 2015, 8:41am
Post #5 of 10
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A quick googling brought this:
"They needed food and drink, and rest, though many were by training as tough as Dwarves in enduring hardship. They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain"
Robert Foster's "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" notes that the average Edain lifespan is between 70-90 years, which suggests that average Orc longevity (barring illness and injury) is somewhere around 60 years of age.
source
It is also mentioned there that in some cases, maiar would pose as orc captains who then reappear in battles, appearing almost ageless.
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Ereinion Nénharma
Menegroth
Nov 29 2015, 10:43am
Post #6 of 10
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...it is not Tolkien stating this. So, should it be considered canon?
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
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Ilmatar
Nargothrond
Nov 29 2015, 10:57am
Post #7 of 10
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Not sure, but it seems legitimate
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The source for the quote (on the page I linked to) is given as "Morgoth's Ring", the tenth volume of the The History of Middle-earth, authored by J.R.R. Tolkien and edited by Christopher Tolkien.
(This post was edited by Ilmatar on Nov 29 2015, 10:57am)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 29 2015, 1:22pm
Post #8 of 10
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Well, Foster seems to forget that Bolg was the son of Azog the defiler who died in TA 2799 in Tolkien's legendarium. Therefore Bolg would have had to have been over 140 years old at the Battle of Five Armies. Of course that is in the legendarium and his age in the films could be different.
Another thing to consider is that if Legolas' mother died before the fall of Angmar then it was probably at least 400 years before the Battle of Five Armies if we assume that the defeat of Angmar is what began Lord Elrond's 400 years of watchful peace. It seems unlikely that Bolg, or even Azog, would be over 400 years old. On the other hand, her death might be unrelated to the fall of Angmar and the trouble between the Woodland Realm and Gundabad might have been more recent ('though it is hard to imagine that this could be true and Tauriel would have no knowledge of it).
And that's another thing: If Tauriel did not know that the Woodland Queen died at Gundabad then it must have taken place at least 600 years earlier, ether before Tauriel was born or when she was very young.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 29 2015, 1:27pm)
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Toukol
Nevrast
Nov 29 2015, 8:30pm
Post #9 of 10
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Or it was simple a subject not spoken of and she did not know.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 29 2015, 9:52pm
Post #10 of 10
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Or it was simple a subject not spoken of and she did not know.
If you are thinking of what Legolas said to Tauriel, it does not matter that Thranduil never spoke of the subject. If the Woodland Realm had been at war with Angmar and the Queen had died in the enemy kingdom, do you seriously believe that the subject would not have been a major topic of conversation--at least away from the ears of the Elvenking--for a very long time? If the death of Legolas' mother had occurred during Tauriel's lifetime then she would have learned of it, especially since she was raised in Thranduil's household. Frankly, it's incredible that she knew so little about it as was depicted. Peter Jackson wrote himself into a corner on this point and never came up with an adequate solution. In the end, her ignorance was just a plot device to inform the audience; nothing more.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 29 2015, 10:07pm)
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