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Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Ossiriand
Oct 14 2015, 9:11am
Post #1 of 23
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Anyone else still disappointed?
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Not to be a downer, but I'm still not too happy about this movie. Don't get me wrong, some of the scenes added were pretty cool and enjoyable. Some of the editing issues were fixed. It flowed a little better.
But it was lazy. Obviously a lot of the battle stuff was removed to avoid an R rating and cut from the TE. And all they did was put it back. I don't think much effort was put into fixing other footage or working it back in. The character moments are still lacking. I'm not going to be easily swayed by some troll decapitations and Dain insults - it was still a flawed movie.
I feel PJ wanted to wash his hands of it a long time ago yet we know of so much more that could have been added from what was shot. I'm still scratching my head at 20 minutes. Yes some scenes were reworked but it was still missing something. Almost all the new stuff was at the end, and I kept checking off in my head which scenes we would never see as the movie went on.
Justice for Fili
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Oct 14 2015, 9:40am
Post #2 of 23
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I never expected this to "fix" things. That was never what the EEs were for. Rather than being intended as catch-all unlimited footage versions, they are "Director's cuts"; the films that PJ would have liked to put out in theaters in the first place but couldn't for whatever reason. If you were checking off scenes that you were never going to see, of course you were disappointed because you were expecting everything. None of the EEs have ever given us everything.
You consider it lazy that they "just put stuff back", but that's why PJ started doing the EEs in the first place: so he could put back in things that had to be taken out for time or pacing. There's a list of scenes we know were filmed for LOTR that many of us would love to see as well. Faramir and Eowyn's wedding is one example. We know it was filmed, it was talked about, but we've never seen any of it. There are plenty of other examples as well.
There's always been talk of the Super Everything-Including-the-Kitchen-Sink version someday, but personally I think chances are small that we'll ever see it. I'm grateful for what we have gotten, though. What other director has ever put out so much background and behind-the-scenes material, much less re-edited every single film in two trilogies? I feel fortunate, not disappointed.
Silverlode
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
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lionoferebor
Nargothrond
Oct 14 2015, 11:22am
Post #3 of 23
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though much of what I read sounds like there were some improvements. However, based on your post from Tumblr (you know which one I'm talking about), I am crushed. I lost sleep over it last night...no lie, and I'm still hurting.
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Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Ossiriand
Oct 14 2015, 11:24am
Post #4 of 23
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This version WAS better. What I mean by "fix" is that there were some scenes that were still choppy and didn't seem right. I thought the focus was more on the action aspects, unlike the other EEs where we got some character moments or side plots and dialogue that enhanced the film. While I did enjoy the extra battle footage, it didn't add anything "extra." I felt these scenes should have been in the TE and this version could have had those character moments/tied up some unresolved storylines.
Justice for Fili
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AshNazg
Hithlum
Oct 14 2015, 11:36am
Post #5 of 23
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The most frustrating thing about these movies is that PJ shot an amazing adaptation...
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PJ shot an amazing adaptation of The Hobbit, but has edited three terrible movies out of that amazing footage.  If a professional fan could get hold of that footage to re-edit it, we could have something really special.
I feel the same way about his King Kong as well.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Oct 14 2015, 11:37am)
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Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Ossiriand
Oct 14 2015, 11:40am
Post #6 of 23
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I guess if you took that out of the equation, I would have enjoyed it a little better. There were improvements. Some.
Justice for Fili
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MasterOrc
Ossiriand
Oct 14 2015, 11:48am
Post #7 of 23
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Thoroughly enjoyed this edition..matter of fact, this should have been the original theatrical cut.
Judging by all the applause in the theater at the end, I'd say the 200 or so people in attendance were quite happy...
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MEIGWIT
Nevrast
Oct 14 2015, 11:55am
Post #8 of 23
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surely you are being sarcastic...
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PJ has been making films since he was a kid. How old are you and how many films have you made? I would not trust 99% of the people on these boards to do half as good of job with these movies as PJ did. Editing a film together is such a small part of what a director does and it is a collaborative effort. These films are on one of the grandest and most complex production scales as has ever been done. I dare anyone who has ever made a film or not to step up to the plate and even scratch the surface of how much patience, craft, skill, and artistry PJ and company showed by working together to produce what we were given.
It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Oct 14 2015, 12:09pm
Post #9 of 23
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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AshNazg
Hithlum
Oct 14 2015, 12:58pm
Post #10 of 23
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I've made and edited few, and won some local awards, but I don't see why that's relevant...
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One doesn't have to be a professional to know bad editing choices when they see them. It has nothing to do with how much patience or experience or skill went into the movies, some of the editing is bad and the decisions are questionable, this is made apparent by fans and critics alike. The "I'd like to see you do better" is such a void argument. I'm not saying I could do better I said a professional fan could make something special.
Even PJ has said, he watched King Kong in a hotel a couple of years ago and couldn't stand how badly edited parts were. He said watching it he wanted to go back and re-edit the whole thing.  I don't think PJ would consider that disrespectful.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Oct 14 2015, 1:00pm)
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Riven Delve
Dor-Lomin
Oct 14 2015, 1:46pm
Post #12 of 23
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I didn't have high expectations for the EE
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of BOTFA, so I'm OK with it. But although it might sound strange, I'm still somewhat dissatisfied overall. Many of the minor plot issues were smoothed over with the BOTFA EE, but I thought much was still unresolved, simply because parts of the whole don't always fit together. As someone wise here (maybe Magpie? Sorry, can't remember  ) once wrote about the Hobbit trilogy:
It's so good, why isn't it better?
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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grimbeorn15
Ossiriand
Oct 14 2015, 2:08pm
Post #13 of 23
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There were also a variety of scenes I had hoped to see, but I think adding them just for the sake of doing so would have been lazy...for example Beorn in Dol- Guldor most likely would be awkward and clunky, Bilbo in the troll shaw would slow pacing way too much, other lines such as "I did it all for them (Thorin)" just don't seem to fit anywhere. Overall I'm happy with the EE and even feel that in some cases we got too much..believe it or not, but I could have done with less dwarf hero moments as it didn't seem to jive with the overall tone...
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Kilidoescartwheels
Doriath
Oct 14 2015, 2:32pm
Post #14 of 23
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I wonder what we are referring to - obviously something about Fili. Any chance you could send me a link, I'd like to read it.
I can't say "disappointed," because I did like it better, but sure I wish there had been a bit MORE. There were certainly more Dwarves, more of the Company, and lots more Dain, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I guess I'm just greedy.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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LSF
Mithlond
Oct 14 2015, 2:39pm
Post #15 of 23
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Well count me in the greedy group too 
I love what we got, I just want more too. Especially more dwarf before battle/ during battle moments (Oin, Gloin, and Dori didn't get anything at all. Nori and Ori team-up with Bofur throwing the axe was all those two got).
Hopefully the Appendices will sate some of my greed 
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Oct 14 2015, 4:17pm
Post #17 of 23
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I'm sure if we gave the footage to an infinite number of professional fans editing on an infinite number of Steenbecks one fan would eventually produce an edit superior to Jackson's.
******************************************
"Mister Frodo, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good frying pan at your side. I’ve been from one side of this garden to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Providence controlling everything. There's no Music of the Ainur that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
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Avandel
Gondolin
Oct 14 2015, 5:00pm
Post #18 of 23
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Too much is not enough.....the immediate "unhappiness" for me would be the way Fili was handled , and I would have had EACH and EVERY dwarf have their moment. I also would have had a few more shots of the Durins fighting together - I think I saw a blink of the three taking on the troll, from the Appendices .gif that is floating around - and finished it is so cool - but it was too fast.
(I suppose I could say absurd happiness for my part would be had if the movies were completely re-edited from start to finish, stuffing every possible bit of footage into the films. And oh, yeah, have the Durins live, too. And dump some other stuff.....
But PJ never did call to ask what I thought (tho I don't understand that.... )
In the meantime re this EE, I think PJ managed to pull off pathos and appropriate badass humor (Thranduil, Dain) and charming humor (Bilbo, Gandalf, Radagast), and gritty, gutwrenching scenes and rollicking action scenes and a spectacular richness with stellar performances.
Gosh, time is going to drag until I can get those disks and re-immerse myself.
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Avandel
Gondolin
Oct 14 2015, 5:06pm
Post #19 of 23
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What other director has ever put out so much background and behind-the-scenes material, much less re-edited every single film in two trilogies? I feel fortunate, not disappointed.
For all my bemoaning - at the end of the day - I'll never forget my first sight of the dwarves, of this Bilbo, the richness and imagination and staggering scale of these films - and I think the EE is THE version of BOFA to watch, same as the other EEs.
Cutbacks in the industry have been mentioned on TORn before - movies released without any bonus material, and so on. I wonder if PJ will be one of the last directors to share so much, and work with his team with so much dedication. I am glad I was part of it.
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LSF
Mithlond
Oct 14 2015, 5:16pm
Post #20 of 23
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Really? Movies are doing less special features stuff now? I don't really watch many movies, but the ones I do, I love to where I really like that stuff.
PJ said in an interview why he gives us so much. He was that kid who wanted to know everything about his his fave movies were made, and all that was around were the occasional magazine articles. He doesn't want us to feel that with his movies.
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Oct 14 2015, 6:50pm
Post #21 of 23
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The EE is an improvement and should have been the TE....but, the same old issues
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will always remain. Most of the additional footage helped with the exception of Alfrid's demise (as I have noted elsewhere dumb and preachy). Sometimes, a few seconds of extra footage makes a scene better. We finally get to hear Bombur say something....a few words.
The dwarves get more individual fighting scenes. The initial dwarf and elf conflict was interesting....I wonder who would have ultimately won that fight. But, the excesses are what have been the low moments for me in all three films. We get some more with the EE.
I would give the EE a solid point higher than the EE on a scale.
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Danielos
Nargothrond
Oct 14 2015, 7:31pm
Post #22 of 23
(445 views)
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It is strange that a nine hour adaptation of The Hobbit still in many places feels rushed with many storylines and characters undeveloped. The Dol Guldur subplot is a particular huge disappointment! Here they had freedom to use Sauron, the Nazgul and the White Coumcil and makes absolutely nothing with that incredible potential. There were so many great ideas for that storyline here on this forum but what we got was far less interesting, spectacular and creative!
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Dcole4
Nargothrond
Oct 14 2015, 8:00pm
Post #23 of 23
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The film is better than the TE in the simple fact that it fills the gaps that were so choppy in the shorter version. The problem is there are still so many clunky edits throughout the quieter moments where footage is clearly missing.
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