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Ataahua
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Feb 20 2025, 8:37pm
Post #1 of 21
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Amazon's latest creative move: James Bond
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Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson have handed over all creative control of James Bond to Amazon. Are we likely to see death-by-spinoff, a la the diminishing returns of the Star Wars universe? Or could this give the James Bond franchise a boost? https://www.bbc.com/...rticles/cjd35zm5zl4o Also, for all that we might occasionally moan about the Tolkien Estate holding tight to the LOTR rights, overall I am glad that they've been cautious regarding use of the intellectual property. Scarcity can be a blessing for creativity and enjoyment. The last thing I want is for the essence of Middle-earth to be bled dry by side-stories ad nauseum (which is where my concerns lie for the Embracer Group/Warner Bros/New Line deal re new M-e movies).
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo My LOTR fan-fiction
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Feb 20 2025, 8:50pm)
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 20 2025, 8:48pm
Post #2 of 21
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Are you suggesting The Misadventures of Money Penny? Q and Blofeld renting an apartment as the New Odd Couple? I don't see the Star Wars metaphor happening to Bond, but under Amazon, I can see turning Bond into a simp and replaced by a girl boss as the latest franchise death wish. Contemporary social politics seem to have killed off who James Bond is where all the past villains failed. (The last movie notwithstanding). Glad you asked?
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Feb 20 2025, 8:52pm)
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Ataahua
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Feb 20 2025, 8:55pm
Post #3 of 21
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Provocative phrasing notwithstanding,
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yes, side-shows like The Secret Life of Moneypenny or Q - The Younger Years would become literal sideshows to the Bond movies and end up diluting fan enjoyment overall, IMO. There is always a tension between money and art but when money becomes the driver of art, we have a problem.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo My LOTR fan-fiction
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 20 2025, 10:10pm
Post #4 of 21
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"Subverting Expectations" is all the rage. So much so, I guess it's predictable by now - an ironic twist of its own. James Bond betrays his country and becomes the villain in a surprise twist somewhere about half way into the next movie. Think Jon Voight's Jim Phelps in the first Mission: Impossible movie that gave Tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt his start as the hero in the franchise. You might say that turned out well, but it betrays the original series.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Feb 20 2025, 10:11pm)
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Ataahua
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Feb 20 2025, 10:31pm
Post #5 of 21
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Fully agree about the first Mission: Impossible film.
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I was a movie reviewer back in the day and for that film, I said there were two movies: an update to the TV series, which was a terrible betrayal that would offend long-time fans of the show; and a stand-alone action film, which was an excellent blockbuster. I entirely get why the makers wanted to shift the story's focus onto Cruise's character - for the franchise joy (money over art integrity). That still didn't remove the sour taste from long-time fans of the TV show.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo My LOTR fan-fiction
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Feb 21 2025, 12:07am
Post #6 of 21
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I want a 7-year series on "Bill the Pony Eats Grass in Bree"
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OK, maybe I don't. I think one of the worst Star Wars spinoffs was that awful Han Solo one, which is the only one I couldn't finish, and it deservedly bombed. I don't think it was doomed from the start the way some bad ideas are, so it was all about execution. Anyway, I take your point about not wanting bad spinoffs of LOTR. I'm still wait and see on that one.
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 21 2025, 10:10pm
Post #7 of 21
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I had no idea about the Amazon/Bond background before this thread, but it's quite a read: In a December 20, 2024 Huff Post story sourced from a Wall Street Journal article (behind WSJ's subscription wall):
According to a Thursday story in the Journal, sources close to Barbara Broccoli say that she doesn’t think Amazon is a good fit for Bond. The outlet wrote that she “can hold Bond hostage from Amazon for as long as she sees fit,” and quotes a line from her dad in justification: “Don’t have temporary people make permanent decisions.” At other times, she has used her own words, referring to people at Amazon as “[expletive] idiots,” according to the Journal (which printed a censored version of her remarks). Issues between Amazon and Broccoli seemed to pop up amid the MGM acquisition. During negotiations for the deal, Amazon committed to debuting Bond films in theaters first, rather than on streaming, the Journal wrote. But when executives suggested bringing Bond into the Amazon universe, with something like a TV show, a spinoff for the Moneypenny character or even a female 007 series, Broccoli’s response was often said to be the same: “Did you read the contract?” Gee, I wonder what might have changed since December? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Oops, must have leaned on the keyboard there. And I swear I made up the Money Penny idea before I knew the article existed. Now I'm seeing mocking titles for the deal, such as "No Time To DEI," as clearly referencing the fears that Amazon will kill the franchise with social politics and its heavy-handed production policy.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Feb 21 2025, 10:15pm)
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the 13th warrior
Ossiriand

Feb 24 2025, 7:21am
Post #8 of 21
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For Amazon, Henry Cavill would solve a lot of problems....
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Amazon is already working with Cavill on Voltron and Warhammer projects so he is a known quantity to them. He's bankable -- Superman/Justice League, Mission Impossible -- he's been this spy action route before, has experience, The Man From UNCLE, where he basically auditioned for 007, showed some aptitude for the role. The Witcher more action different time era. Certainly a fine actor, enjoyed him long ago as Lord Charles Brandon in the Tudors. Amazon will not want to blow this. A 007 that performed poorly at the box office would damage the brand, although Amazon is crushingly well funded, they still would not want Bond to bomb or have the numbers look soft. He's got a big name and from Superman to Bond storyline will interest the media and the movie going public. So Cavill is a very safe option. My only hangups are that he seems to have retained a huge physique from Superman and other action parts. 007 has never been an Arnold bulk man. Craig had strong physique, other guys better than average but more human in their dimensions. Perhaps trim the massive frame down to size. Also Cavill is very affable friendly well spoken, the Superman you'd like to have a beer with. But sometimes he actually got a chance to play a Superman with a darker edge that would be helpful to playing Bond. 007 gets angry, ticked off, acts like the occasional smartass, has dark rebel impulses on occasion. And he is supposed to be the dispassionate, cold killer, nothing personal strictly business, license to kill etc. Cavill has it in him, would need to prove it on screen. Others l would like to see considered: Christian Bale, Tom Hardy, Cillian Murphy (those icy, eerie eyes, perhaps the most coldblooded of the bunch), Richard Madden as Robb Stark definitely showed he could go from humane commander to executioner. I think they need a big name with proven box office success to grab any doubters, attract their fan base, stir up interest. Will also need good villains, the chief and the minions, interesting plot and script, and modern action women who are in the the thick of things these days, helping drive the story, very good development over the years. Opening hook action sequence. Killer title song and the silhouettes of the dancers all part of mix we look forward to. We'll see what happens. I just think if Cavill is available and interested, it would be like hitting safe, in the pool game of Hollywood risk. Amazon has a lot riding on this. They will want this to succeed big time. The 13th Warrior -- Left Field Caliphate "From the scroll rooms of Gondor, wondering if From Russia w/Love would make a good 10 part mini series. Times are changing, maybe Bond needs to budge a bit...."
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Feb 24 2025, 8:50pm
Post #9 of 21
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I reckon Glen Powell (Twisters, Top Gun: Maverick) could pull it off.
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He certainly has the charisma and 'presence' for the role. To be upfront, I do love me some Cavill, but my only issue with him is that he's similar in every role (the Witcher aside). If he were Bond, I think we'd see a lot that we've seen before.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo My LOTR fan-fiction
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Meneldor
Doriath

Feb 25 2025, 4:20am
Post #10 of 21
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favorite Glen Powell movie is Devotion. It's based on a true story, which Hollywood didn't mess up nearly as bad as they usually do. I went into it already knowing the history and I was still moved and in suspense. Also, the airplane scenes are top notch, as good or better than Top Gun Maverick, and filmed by the same crew.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 25 2025, 6:16pm
Post #11 of 21
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From Mike Reyes at Cinema Blend via Screen Daily:
...casting director Debbie McWilliams has officially announced her own departure from Commander Bond’s camp. While the decision was made before the recent bombshell, McWilliams' statement contained some rather blistering remarks about the future. As shared by Screen Daily, McWilliams got rather candid about how she feels about the road ahead, which wrapped up with the following sentiment: Looking at Amazon’s previous theatrical films does not fill me with any great enthusiasm. If they mess with the Essence of Bond they risk alienating a huge audience. Choosing the actor to fill the role is a huge task and not one I would hand over to subscribers of X.
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the 13th warrior
Ossiriand

Feb 25 2025, 6:53pm
Post #12 of 21
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Powell would be very old school, but would the big Am go for Texas USA guy as 007 ???
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Haven't seen him in too much but Powell seems to have the talent, look, attitude, athleticism for the role, and he would make a big splash as the first American. Great storyline from Top Gun to 007...English, Scottish, Irish, Aussie and New Zealander actors can do American accents at the drop of a hat, would be great to see Powell return the favor. Could go for a lighter UK accent IMHO Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Viggo Mortensen had pretty good ones in LOTR films--read somewhere it's called a Midlands accent??? He fits the mid 30s, on the radar but not a superstar mould. Craig, Connery, Dalton were like this to varying degrees. Moore, Brosnan had perhaps more exposure on the Saint, Remington Steele. He certainly could pull off several films over 10-15 years given age. So question is would Amazon take some risk and make Powell 007?? Why i think Bale, Hardy, Murphy, and especially Cavill fit the bill better, with proven big box office appeal, especially Cavill, again, hitting safe in the pool game, high pct move. Amazon knows what the stakes are. It will unfold like a Spectre plot. Actually if he does not get it, what about casting him in a role he could do with eyes closed---Felix Leiter ??? I can totally see that..... The 13th Warrior -- Left Field Caliphate "From the scroll rooms of Gondor, Powell as Felix would join a line from Jack Lord to Jeff Wright. Very illustrious...."
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Feb 25 2025, 7:15pm
Post #13 of 21
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Cavill makes the most sense and fan support for him is about as universal as anyone can get. That is exactly why, in these days of deconstruction, subverting expectations, and franchise suicide, I have every faith in Amazon to do exactly the wrong thing by giving Cavill a pass.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Feb 25 2025, 7:16pm)
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the 13th warrior
Ossiriand

Feb 26 2025, 6:06am
Post #14 of 21
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Several principles involved here.....
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The Peter Principle - Corporate people rise to the level of their incompetence Murphy's Law - Anything that can go wrong will go wrong Pogo law (US comic strip with animals taking part in political satire) - We have met the enemy and it is us. James Bond has met the enemy and it is Amazon. Not very optimistic, but that is where it seems to stand right now. Crossing fingers for a good outcome and a transition to a good Bond movie. The 13th Warrior -- Left Field Caliphate "From the scroll rooms of Gondor watching old Bond films, wondering what the future holds...."
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 5 2025, 11:52am
Post #15 of 21
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There are the same problems with all these old Properties
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There are the same problems with all these old Properties. Firstly I agree that there seems to be more cash around to buy them up than there is creative ability to do something interesting having bought them. But it is probably impossible to do something that doesn't noisily displease some folks. And, quite likely, just not appeal to the more sensioble majority. One problem is nostalgia - these old Properties have one or more sets of fans who got engaged with it at different times in the past. Anybody making a new story now can end up getting dragged in different directions: the fans demand make something that is exactly like what I knew and loved long ago, but also new! And if that weren't already difficult enough, what I knew and loved long ago is different for different lots of fans. SO. James Bond: assuming he's to be returned to his glory years, how is that to be done? No agreement is possible, in my view. I can't remember watching any of the Timothy Dalton movies. But I read reviews of them which suggested there was something of a reset from the Roger Moore incarnations. Very likely Dalton is the definitive Bond to some, but I can't comment. I did watch some of the Roger Moore ones, which I thought seemed to rely ever more heavily on stunts, gadgets and girls. Now very likely that is peak and definitive Bond for some fans, and I have no problem with that. Just wasn't for me. I did watch some of the Sean Connery movies. They seemed a little more like the books to me. But again, not peak Bond for me. That's just because I was a 'book-firster' in the world of Bond. And, probably more importantly, I read the books at about the same age and at about the same historical time as Francis Spufford. His account of the effect is pretty much what remember, but much better written:
“The thing that made them [the Bond novels] so attractive to us at that particular age [13 y.o.] was that they led you seamlessly from the boy’s stuff you had coveted last year–sports cars equipped with machine-guns–on to the enticements that were just starting to figure in your fantasies, and would dominate them next year–naked odalisques painted gold, and female pilots who unzipped their flying suits from neck to crotch in one sinuous southward motion. Unlike the films, the original Ian Fleming novels fitted all the diverse attractions of Bond’s world together as component pieces of one vision of sexed-up, gentlemanly poise. Sean Connery as Bond showed you the Platonic ideal of a lad; Roger Moore was a burlesque smoothie; but Fleming’s Bond, as well as manifesting vestigial signs of being a character with emotions, so that in The Spy Who Loved Me he actually fell in love with somebody, came from a pre-Suez arcadia, where an amoral, good-looking, violent, upper-class Englishman with an infinite budget upon which to lead the good life, could know what exactly were the very best things to have and to do in every single area of life. If you were Bond, said Goldfinger and Live and Let Die, you would drink Bombay gin and smoke Egyptian cigarettes. You would wear a Savile Row suit and shoot the cuffs of a shirt handmade for you in Jermyn Street as you sat down in Monte Carlo to play baccarat against a countess. Your gun would be a Walther PPK: not some gross destructive cannon, as favoured by vulgar American secret agents, but a suave, neat little gentleman’s murdering-piece, to be used against vile foreign masterminds who were usually not alpha males like yourself, but creepy wet-lipped middle-aged creatures of uncertain antecedents. Your women would be an everchanging harem, gathered from the four corners of the late-imperial world, and their names would be suggestive jokes that would reveal themselves to be really quite rude indeed if you happened to possess the bit of arcane knowledge necessary to understand them. (‘ Pussy Galore’ was once upon a time a name that only sounded pussy-cattish to the majority of British readers. In the 1950s only a select few knew American slang.) The shopping list went on, seductively unflagging. The version of the good life it was selling was, of course, blatantly obsolete in 1977. Britain had just been bailed out by the IMF in an un-suave, un-supercharged-six-litre-Bentley kind of a way. The Sex Pistols had just released Never Mind the Bollocks. The cigarettes I would start smoking three years later would be B & H, not some special blend flown in from Cairo. I do remember somebody buying a pack of black Balkan Sobranies with gold tips, and feeling very sophisticated with one in my gob, but the effect we were trying for was Roxy Music rather than Casino Royale. The James Bond of the novels was as defunct as Bulldog Drummond. It didn’t matter: the shopping list was not for shopping from.” Francis Spufford, The Child That Books Built, Faber and Faber 2010 And so, Bond suited me as the fantasies I needed at a particular period of my life. My needs rapidly became different, and are different now. Requiring a new writing team to bring back the Bond magic is about as realistic as requiring them to make me 13 again (though, come to think of it, nooooo! anything but that!) Very likely, Bond in his later incarnations served much the same wanted-it-at-that-point-in-life purpose to later cohorts of young people. If so, the same nostalgia problem probably applies. Mr Bond was of course not new when Francis Spufford and I were being entertained by him as a sort of English Batman with extra sex. The first book was published in the Fifties, and Ian Flemming died in 1964, two years after finishing his last one. My parents had already read the books, and along with what Spufford and I saw, they were more likely to see the escapism of British hero outwitting not only the "vile foreign masterminds who were usually not alpha males like yourself, but creepy wet-lipped middle-aged creatures of uncertain antecedents". Bond also gets one over those nice, enthusiastic, well equipped (but only technologically) Americans. Nice chaps, those Americans in a Bond book. But not, the books make clear, anything like worth a British agent, man for man. So our American friends in the books are more likely to help out a bit, or to be fed to the sharks by the vile foreign mastermind than to get the girl or thwart the vile foreign mastermind. Consolations for British readers in a time of their country as a rapidly fading empire (whether one could see that at the time or not). So you see: Which Bond do we restore to his former glory? In my view whichever it is, it is bound to fail because the task is just not reasonable, however talented and sincere and knowledgeable-in-lore the new writers.
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Mar 5 2025, 11:53am)
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squire
Gondolin

Mar 6 2025, 2:05am
Post #16 of 21
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Nice rehearsal of the changing Bond identity, starting with the author's 1950s conception of a British secret agent that simply cannot be put on a screen today. Or yesterday either - or at any time since the 1970s, when Roger Moore abandoned Sean Connery's sincere attempt to be Fleming's hero and descended into comedy, parody, and cheap but flashing stunts. But Bond has always been an enigma, even in his own time. I remember reading a critique of the books written in the early 60s. My father had all the novels in hardback and I absorbed them religiously in the late 60s even as I watched the movies, and noticed that the two just didn't match up most of the time. Dad also had the critique that I read in those years: The James Bond Dossier by Kingsley Amis (1965). Although Amis in general was defending the Bond novels as artworks in the guise of popular thrillers, I remember he was brutal about the implausibility of the character himself. Where, exactly, did James Bond fit into the British class system? Where did he go to school? How much money did he make and how much money did he have - a crucial distinction in the British establishment? Where did he learn his manners, his taste in clothing, drinks, guns, and cars if not from the upper class - and then what was a member of the upper class doing working for the Queen as a field agent for the Secret Service? We take all of it for granted, because Ian Fleming's sense of fantasy was exquisite. But Bond was a fantasy from the very beginning, and the films have used that key as a gift to reinvent, and reinvent, and reinvent again this superhero from a world that never existed then, and doesn't exist now.
squire online: Unfortunately my longtime internet service provider abandoned its hosting operations last year. I no longer have any online materials to share with the TORn community.
= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 6 2025, 2:33pm
Post #17 of 21
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reinvent, and reinvent, and reinvent again
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.Ian Fleming's sense of fantasy was exquisite. But Bond was a fantasy from the very beginning, and the films have used that key as a gift to reinvent, and reinvent, and reinvent again this superhero from a world that never existed then, and doesn't exist now.
I wish I had made my main point as eloquently as you have restated it here . And of course each reinvention risks leaving behind some fans for whom the 'franchise' is no longer any fun. Or because the new things added -- comedy, parody, and cheap but flashing stunts; or the new writers' ideas about social or political commentary -- are annoying or suggest that some other sector of "the market" is the one mosyt in the writers' and the money-men's thoughts now. The same could be said, of course of LOTR. There's a slightly chaotic audio transcript of a talk Prof Tom Shippey gave, describing the changes made to Tolkien's book by Jackson et al. It includes this bit:
So it cost Tolkien nothing to write The Lord of the Rings, which meant he could do what he liked. But Jackson, with the bill rising all the time and pressure on his back actually from the money men back in Los Angeles. He had got to think about making a return on the investment, and as a result I think there was on him a strong sense of what I call reverse audience pressure. He got to try to figure out how he was gonna sell this movie and he got to start doing things, which he thought would appeal to the target audience. And the target audience was teenagers. Well as a result, it's quite clear that much of the movie has been teenagerd. Mary and Pippin are much brattier than they are in the original. We have that, well I mean there are some things where you just have to hide your eyes and pretend you weren't there. But there's Legolas skateboarding down the steps. There's unfortunate jokes about dwarf tossing and things like that. Then I think it could go on, Gimli I slightly regret this, has been turned into a kind of grumpy old dad image. For people to laugh at, as you made more of a figure of fun. We got other things like, [inaudible 00:09:53] Being written out and Éowyn being written back in [I wonder whether that ought to read Glorfindel being written out and Arwen being written back in - for the flight to the Ford], because somebody at some point said we've got to build that character up. Okay, okay, okay. There's half a dozen things like that, and as I say you just have to let them go by. One other thing is it's pretty clear I think that the model they had in mind was Star Wars. They wanted to outdo Star Wars in terms of special FX. That was something that they were dead set on doing. They also realized I think early on, that because of the teenage market and having looked at Star Wars. They didn't need to spend a lot of money on well known actors. Because their target audience was not going to be particular impressed by well known actors. So they could save a good bit of budget there. Tolkien Book to Jackson Script: The Medium and the Message I was amused by Shippey's word, "teenagerd". I do see that. Nothing wrong with teenagers, or those who were teenage when they watched and first loved Jackson's films. But there it is - a re-invention. Yet another example - one of the many that have been discussed before here - is Aragorn becoming that understandabe to teenagers of 2000 figure, the man who overcomes self-doubt, with the aid of a kind and supportive girlfriend. It's impossible to imagine Tolkien writing that "the same blood, the same weakness" line for Aragorn. He is fully ready to be King: it's just when that is 'meant to happen'. We could go on. We have in the past. So what we have is a variant on 'shifting baseline syndrome' - an idea from ecology:
“This continuous lowering of standards and the acceptance of degraded natural ecosystems is known as ‘shifting baseline syndrome’–a term coined in 1995 by fisheries scientist Daniel Pauly, who noticed that experts who were charged with evaluating radically depleted fish stocks took as their baseline the state of the fishery at the start of their careers, rather than fish populations in their original state. Hundreds of years ago an area of sea may have been heaving with fish. But scientists’ reference point for ‘natural’ population levels is invariably pinned to levels dating back no more than a few decades from the present. Each generation, Pauly realized, redefines what is ‘natural’.” — Wilding: The Return of Nature to a British Farm by Isabella Tree, Picador 2018 One caveat here - it's probably possible to count fish with such a robust methodology that it would be perverse to disagree with the resulting population estimates. But whether a fantasy gets better or worse with each reinvention is a matter of opinion. And there need not necessarily be a continuous lowering of standards. The similarity I'm going for is that Each generation... redefines what is ‘natural’.
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 6 2025, 2:50pm
Post #18 of 21
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. Nice rehearsal of the changing Bond identity, starting with the author's 1950s conception of a British secret agent that simply cannot be put on a screen today. Or yesterday either - or at any time since the 1970s, when Roger Moore abandoned Sean Connery's sincere attempt to be Fleming's hero and descended into comedy, parody, and cheap but flashing stunts. Yes indeed. It's probably too soon to produce a Bond put back into the 1950s or 1960s. The latter was of course done as parody, with the '60s as trope - Austin Powers. Best Bond Movie for ages, if you ask me. And the book plots are very likely not at all suitable any more. I mean, I'd be delighted to see Besos et al. remake book-Moonraker - plot: A rocket-building industrialist turns out to be a Nazi. Or book-Goldfinger - plot: mobster-businessman with unlikeable sexual habits is obsessed with minerals, and his plan for self-enrichment jepordises the West. But what would modern Americans make of those absurd plots?
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Mar 6 2025, 2:52pm)
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Mar 6 2025, 10:05pm
Post #19 of 21
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I've mostly forgotten that movie (s?) but appreciated the jabs it made, especially Austin's son saying, "Dad, I have a gun, I can shoot him in the head here, now. Bam, he's dead." Austin: "No, I want a ridiculously long and drawn out killing contraption scene that will take a long time and offer him multiple attempts to escape while of course no one is even watching him." Or something like that; paraphrasing from memory. He sure shredded through a lot of the Roger Moore plots especially. But it was never a franchise to take seriously, just enjoy it with popcorn, and take notes on how to Be a Real Man.
(This post was edited by CuriousG on Mar 6 2025, 10:05pm)
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 7 2025, 6:27pm
Post #20 of 21
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"Never a franchise to take seriously...."
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Quite right, but then again, what franchise is? Not toooooo seriously anyway. I remember when I was about 6 enjoying the Adam West version of Batman absoultely seriously. They had a running gag that everything had to be labelled. So, for exampel, if there was a Bubblgum-activated secret exit from candy store, it would have a sign on it saying Bubblgum Activated Secret Exit From Candy Store. But I didn't realise it was a running gag, of course. Sped my reading up no end, trying to read these signs before the went of screen. It was all very serious and exciting. Many years later I watched the Batman movie with my kids, who were also round-eyed with taking the excitement seriously, while I was enjoying thngs like the 'some days you just can't get rid of a bomb' sequence in a totally different way. Classic.
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Mar 7 2025, 6:53pm
Post #21 of 21
(4476 views)
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But it was never a franchise to take seriously... Is any franchise? Investors take them seriously. Compared to the life and death survival before science, medicine, industrialization and movie projectors, what's to take seriously now? I look at making things cheap in comparison to other things with great suspicion because the seriousness with which we treat something can always be gainsaid by something else more important until life is cheap. So I take seriously the contemporary, trendy dismemberment of our cultural franchises. Moonraker did not take itself seriously enough. There's been some similar criticism of Moore and Brosnan Bond films.
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