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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Do you think the Arkenstone will/should have a unique theme attached to it?

Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 21 2008, 2:47am

Post #1 of 18 (308 views)
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Do you think the Arkenstone will/should have a unique theme attached to it? Can't Post

Been thinking about this quite a bit, since the thread on themes for the Hobbit (must be more tired than I thought cause I couldn’t find itUnsure) and I think it should. It’s so important to Thorin and controls a lot of his behaviour with regards to the Dwarves retaking the mountain.
What do you think?
*hugs all* Kelvarhin


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay


Mirabella_Bunce
Rivendell

May 21 2008, 1:39pm

Post #2 of 18 (174 views)
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...after all these years [In reply to] Can't Post

...I'm still trying to work out just exactly what the Arkenstone actually IS. I know it's a real purdy rock that was once found at the roots of the mountain by Thrain, but still, it's unlike Tolkien to have an object like that in Middle earth without it having some kind of important role in the larger history or his world, so I'm looking for hints of its past in the History books edited by Christopher and anywhere else I can think of to look.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arkenstone.html
http://www.tuckborough.net/objects.html

BUT I'm guessing that if such a juicy tidbit of trivia actually exists to be found, someone here will already know it and so, I am sure, will Phillippa Boyens, and that she will find good ways to work this significance into the storyline. (Do you get the impression I really admire her? :) )


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 21 2008, 7:13pm

Post #3 of 18 (173 views)
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I think if it's mentioned [In reply to] Can't Post

during the discussion and planning in Bag End and how important it is to Thorin in particular, they could establish it as one of the significant treasures they feel is worthy of the Quest all by itself!

It does need a bit of weight to it if it's going to be such an important bargaining chip/



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


Snaga
Lorien


May 21 2008, 9:23pm

Post #4 of 18 (216 views)
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I always thought it was remarkable... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Bilbo acquires the ring and, considering what IT is (or what we later learn it is) he is somewhat indifferent to it. Sure he finds it useful and takes advantage of it's properties. But I seem to recall he doesn't spend a whole lot of time considering this thing and at one point kind of forgets it was even in his pocket. The one point in the hobbit where I get a "tickle" in the back of my mind is when he for some reason opts not to reveal his possession of it to Gandalf and the dwarves. At least until much later.

The Arkenstone, however, was a much different story. It immediately takes hold of him. It can only be described as a sort of lust. He knows he shouldn't keep it, at one point he reflects on possible repercussions if he is found out, but he filches it anyway.

However GDT, PJ and gang decide to handle the Arkenstone it needs to be done in a way that allows for this emotional tension to be seen and absorbed in part by the audience. Combined with this is a scary build-up as Thorin looks intently for the Arkenstone (kind of possessed like BIlbo, but by the memory of it) and even makes a statement about what would happen to anyone who tried to conceal or take it.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how this is dealt with.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir, reflecting on his brother.

(This post was edited by Snaga on May 21 2008, 9:25pm)


Elenedhel
Rivendell


May 21 2008, 11:33pm

Post #5 of 18 (133 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

it is kind of the cause of The Battle of Five Armies, or at least the beginning between the Dwarves and the men of Laketown/Elves, so unless they're really going to change it, then, yes.

"O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees,
Thy starlight on the Western Seas."

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men,and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he was from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace..."

"Many folk like to know beforehand what is to be set on the table; but those who have laboured to prepare the feast like to keep their secret; for wonder makes the words of praise louder."






Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 22 2008, 6:29am

Post #6 of 18 (187 views)
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I've always thought of it as a type of large diamond [In reply to] Can't Post

beautifully crafted by the dwarves to maximise it's soul.

After, I think it was, CM made a comment about Thorins death and it needing a special musical score, it got me to thinking that the Arkenstone should probably have a special musical score/theme too. Possibly connected in someway to Thorin.

I'd never have guessed you admired Phillipa Boyens (Tongue)*tongue stuck in cheek* but she is VERY talented isn't she?

Thanks for those links too MB.

*hugs* Kelvarin x


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay


mae govannen
Tol Eressea

May 22 2008, 12:17pm

Post #7 of 18 (128 views)
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'the cause of the Battle of the 5 Armies'?... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not really, I would say. Thorin's 'stiff neck' and obstinate rejection of every proposed fair agreement is the real cause, it seems to me. As for the Arkenstone, it was meant by poor Bilbo to become on the contrary a good reason for making peace instead of war, but even that didn't work, and infuriated Thorin even more - but he wasn't going to yield before either, so there is nothing to regret about Bilbo's attempt, which was lauded by Thranduil and Bard, and more important even, by Gandalf himself. I would say the Arkenstone was the last chance for Thorin to make the right choice, and he missed it... to repent only upon his death and after the death of many more, alas.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)

(This post was edited by mae govannen on May 22 2008, 12:18pm)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea

May 22 2008, 12:27pm

Post #8 of 18 (124 views)
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Definitely yes, I would say!... But not evil like the Ring: [In reply to] Can't Post

the Arkenstone was simply extremely beautiful, but more almost like the Silmarils, that is, because of the light it was radiating in such an extraordinary manner, and because of its exceptional size too.
In my eyes, its stands for the Jewel of the Dwarves, without evil influence in it as itself. But Greed turns everything into an evil... until, in the case of the Arkenstone, Thorin's sincere change of heart made him worthy again of having it at last, when dying.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Mirabella_Bunce
Rivendell

May 22 2008, 1:17pm

Post #9 of 18 (115 views)
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Well, you have to remember: [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien DID have to go back and re-write parts of the Hobbit to give this Ring a bigger and more important meaning. The part where Gandalf thought it worrisome that Bilbo of all people would lie about how he found the ring, was only added to the Hobbit after several printings, when Tolkien was writing LOTR and himself realized the discrepancy. So, no, the Ring does not have as large a "speaking role" in the Hobbit as it might ought to have had, considering what it later became, but I'm confident that GDT and PJ-and-team are well up to addressing that issue. In fact I can see several instances in LOTR where they were already setting things up to make sure this is not such a discrepancy.

And the explanation actually does already exist in the fabric of the Stories. When Bilbo first found the Ring, it was still "sleeping," rather, Sauron was. He had managed to establish a foothold in Mirkwood but that was small potatoes compared to the strength he had to build up in order to seriously vie for the position of Evil Overlord of Arda. Even when Gollum first found the ring, it took many years for him to completely succumb. One would imagine that it would take even longer to completely subdue a Hobbit, especially a Hobbit who had the integrity Bilbo had, since Hobbits are known for being resilient and difficult to tempt with the kinds of things that Men are so easily corrupted by. (Now if the Ring had come to, say, Otho Sackville-Baggins, it might have been a different story altogether!)

The fact that Bilbo found the Ring at all was just the first hint of Sauron's slowly returning strength. The Ring left Gollum on purpose because it sensed it was Time To Move and begin seeking its Master. By the time LOTR begins, as PJ so wisely had Gandalf say to Frodo: "The Ring has awoken - it's heard its Master's call. The fewmets are about to hit the windmill." (OK maybe he didn't say that last part.)

In Reply To
...that Bilbo acquires the ring and, considering what IT is (or what we later learn it is) he is somewhat indifferent to it. Sure he finds it useful and takes advantage of it's properties. But I seem to recall he doesn't spend a whole lot of time considering this thing and at one point kind of forgets it was even in his pocket. The one point in the hobbit where I get a "tickle" in the back of my mind is when he for some reason opts not to reveal his possession of it to Gandalf and the dwarves. At least until much later.



Darkstone
Immortal


May 22 2008, 1:22pm

Post #10 of 18 (128 views)
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Absolutely! [In reply to] Can't Post

Shore should do something jazzy, definitely Henry Mancini-ish. And maybe do a DePatie-Freleng type animated music video . Starring an animal like, say, a fox. Could lead to a whole franchise! The Return of the Arkenstone, The Arkenston Strikes Again, Revenge of the Arkenstone, Trail of the Arkenstone, Curse of the Arkenstone, Son of the Arkenstone. Maybe have Billy Boyd star as a bumbling hobbit inspector under a frustrated Chief Shirrif. This could work!

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Elenedhel
Rivendell


May 22 2008, 9:34pm

Post #11 of 18 (106 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

but the Arkenstone was partially the cause of Thorin's stiff neck.

"O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees,
Thy starlight on the Western Seas."

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men,and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he was from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace..."

"Many folk like to know beforehand what is to be set on the table; but those who have laboured to prepare the feast like to keep their secret; for wonder makes the words of praise louder."






Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 23 2008, 2:43am

Post #12 of 18 (110 views)
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I said Arkenstone...not Keystone!!!! ;-P [In reply to] Can't Post

*mutter...mutter...mutter*

ROFL EvilEvilEvilEvilTongue


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay


Patty
Immortal


May 23 2008, 3:32am

Post #13 of 18 (105 views)
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You are reminding me of the little theme it has... [In reply to] Can't Post

in The Hobbit radio play. Just enough to let you know what it's talking about, yet it is the sound something very precious might evoke in someone's head.

Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.


Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 23 2008, 3:40am

Post #14 of 18 (97 views)
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Can you remember what the theme was like? [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't listened to the radio play for over 20 years, so can't remember it myself Blush sort of think it should be something soft and alluring.


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 23 2008, 3:11pm

Post #15 of 18 (106 views)
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The Keystone has no new theme... [In reply to] Can't Post

the Keystone State needs no new theme!
"Heeere we go!...Steelers! Here we go...Pittsburgh's goin' to the Su-u-per Bowl!...." will do just fine (with a couple minor lyric updates). ;)

[Although the Philly end of the state seems to be fond of simply chanting "*Boooooo!* You suck! Get off the field!" ---but that's just what they yell at their own players. =) ]

**********************************

"Oh, tra-la-la-lally yourself!"


Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 24 2008, 4:53am

Post #16 of 18 (83 views)
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*grins* [In reply to] Can't Post

funny but we hear similar sort of chants from our across town rivals Wink which we reply "Who's got 3 shiny premiership cups? WE DO!!" Not bad for a young team Cool.

BTW Looovvvvveee your signature, gives me a giggle every time I see it and the photo is perfect Smile


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 24 2008, 5:19am

Post #17 of 18 (82 views)
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Seriously, these people are infamous. [In reply to] Can't Post

Philadelphia fans are known for heckling their own players in every sport, slashing the tires of Owners&Management on Owner&Management Appreciation Night even AFTER winning the game, and most famously...booing Santa Claus!
You don't want to be the homegrown hero former player now returning on the other side either. ;)

Thanks! We had fun doing that photoshoot.

**********************************

"Oh, tra-la-la-lally yourself!"

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on May 24 2008, 5:20am)


Kelvarhin
Half-elven


May 24 2008, 5:28am

Post #18 of 18 (111 views)
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Feral [In reply to] Can't Post

and I'd always thought the Dockers fans were bad. The Philadephia fans take the cake, though by the sounds of it they'd throw it right back LOL.


There he stood
Proud and solemn
Yet happy and gay

 
 

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