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Elizabeth
Half-elven
May 13 2008, 8:00am
Post #1 of 6
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King of the Golden Hall 3: Symbelmynė
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The group is approaching Edoras:
At the foot of the walled hill the way ran under the shadow of many mounds, high and green. Upon their western sides the grass was white as with a drifted snow: small flowers sprang there like countless stars amid the turf.
Look! said Gandalf. How fair are the bright eyes in the grass! Evermind they are called, simbelmynė in this land of Men, for they blossom in all the seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest. Behold! we are come to the great barrows where the sires of Théoden sleep. Seven mounds upon the left, and nine upon the right, said Aragorn. Many long lives of men it is since the golden hall was built.
Five hundred times have the red leaves fallen in Mirkwood in my home since then, said Legolas, and but a little while does that seem to us.
The history of Rohan is summarized in Appendix A, which also lists the occupants of these mounds. The nine on the right are the direct descendants of Eorl the Young, who "rode down out of the North" in 2510 (Legolas' count is approximate) at the invitation of Cirion, Steward of Gondor, to assist in combatting an invasion of "wild men" and orcs. In gratitude for this action, Cirion granted the lands which now form Rohan to Eorl and his followers. That line ended with Helm Hammerhand, for whom Helm's Deep is named. The seven on the left represent Helm's "sister son" and his descendants.
1. It's fair to assume that first-time readers are oblivious to this background. How long did it take you to discover it, and what effect (if any) did all the extra detail in the Appendix have on your perception of the story?
2. The northern home of Eorl's ancestors was near Mirkwood. Is Legolas speaking from memory of these events?
 Hammond & Scull (The Lord of the Rings, a Reader's Companion) report that symbelmynė is derived from the Old English simbel "continueal, perpetual, ever, always" plus myne "mind". In Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondor, written c. 1951-52, on his way through a ravine leading to Gondolin "Tuor saw beside the way a sward of grass, where like stars bloomed the white flowers uilos the Evermind that knows no season and withers not" (Unfinished Tales, p. 48. They also quote Tolkien (in Nomenclature) that simbelmynė is "intended to be an imagined variety of anemone, growing in turf like Anemone pulsatilla, the pasque flower, but smaller and white like the wood anemone."
Here is a closeup of the Symbelmynė from the movie.
3. Does this match your mental picture? Anyone want to contribute some alternative images?
In a previous round of discussions, NZ Strider offered this commentary on Symbelmynė and "flowers of remembrance".
4. Any further comments on Symbelmynė or the history of Rohan?
Ride with us in the Reading Room this week to see
the King of the Golden Hall!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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sador
Half-elven
May 13 2008, 5:41pm
Post #2 of 6
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1. It's fair to assume that first-time readers are oblivious to this background. How long did it take you to discover it, and what effect (if any) did all the extra detail in the Appendix have on your perception of the story?
Eorl and Cirion - untill Faramir tells about it in 'The Window on the West'.
The two lines of kings - at Theoden's funeral in 'Many Partings'.
I guess I didn't make the connections on my first reading, but my first copy was without the appendices, and I'm pretty sure I made these two at my second (or third, at the latest) reading - which was before I noticed in some book-shop an edition in which The Return of the King was too long, and decided to check why.
2. The northern home of Eorl's ancestors was near Mirkwood. Is Legolas speaking from memory of these events?
According to 'the tale of years', Sauron returned to Dol Guldur at 2460, and orcs began populating the Misty Mountains around 2480. The shadow fell upon Mirkwood again. The Balchoth came from around Rhun, which was on the other side of Mirkwood. Celebrian was waylaid in the Redhorn pass, and left for the Havens. The Stoors deserted their colony in the Gladden Fields. Most of the Northmen left the Eotheod (but enough remained to become the woodmen around the Mountains and the people of Dale).
Legolas might not have remebered exactly the first Ride of the Rohirrim (which weren't called by that name at the time), but he had a recollection of the period, and it probably took him a shorter time to fit it into the pattern.
4. Any further comments on Symbelmynė or the history of Rohan?
One must remember also Aragorn's words, as he identifies the body he found in the Paths of the Dead as Baldor's:
'Hither shall the flowers of simbelmyne come never unto the world's end,' he murmured. 'Nine mounds and seven there are now green with grass, and through all the long years he has lain at the door that he could not unlock.'
"We are all friends here. Or should be" - Gandalf
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Canto
Bree
May 13 2008, 7:23pm
Post #3 of 6
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I think you anytime you quote NZ Strider
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then you've successfully managed to exhaust the subject! 
"Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceases." (Tolkien commenting on the similarities between Wagner's Der Ring Des Nibelungen[/] and LoTR)
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
May 14 2008, 4:24am
Post #4 of 6
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I always wondered if Simbelmyne has an intense need for nitrogen and phosphorus, and therefore its windblown seeds only propagate in soil burying a large and long-decayed dead animal, such as a man? I figure that if you want to grow them in your garden, you'll need to stock up on blood meal and bone meal.
My website http://www.dreamdeer.grailmedia.com offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on May 14 2008, 4:24am)
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Beren IV
Gondor
May 14 2008, 6:08am
Post #5 of 6
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This forum seems to be getting more and more buttercups lately!
1. It's fair to assume that first-time readers are oblivious to this background. How long did it take you to discover it, and what effect (if any) did all the extra detail in the Appendix have on your perception of the story?
I was certainly unaware of it the first read through, although I was perfectly aware that there was a long history of heroism before this. I don't know how much of it I was aware of on the second read - I think this is when I was starting to pick this stuff up, because I would flip back to the appendicies.
2. The northern home of Eorl's ancestors was near Mirkwood. Is Legolas speaking from memory of these events?
Can't say - we still don't really know Legolas' age. If Legolas is 500+ years old, then I am sure he knows of a tribe of Northmen who rode south along the Anduin. He may or may not have grasped the significance of them at the time, or have made the connection that the Horse Lords are the same people as this tribe of long ago. Not all of the Northmen did ride south, after all.
3. Does this match your mental picture? Anyone want to contribute some alternative images?
I pictured more herbaceous annual forbs, instead of the perennial subshrubs pictured here. I guess that Ranunculaceae (buttercup family) is a pretty good match to the appearance I was thinking of, though - either that or some kind of lilly.
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
May 14 2008, 6:32am
Post #6 of 6
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*heh* I thought you'd appreciate that.
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Probably not a surprise that I also grow Anemone pulsatilla/Pulsatilla vulgaris and Anemone nemorosa...*cough*and a few more*cough*.
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