Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How will GDT face the issue of talking beasts?
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 4 2008, 3:11am

Post #26 of 40 (358 views)
Shortcut
Usually [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen those kind of responses in a helpful light, especially if a new poster isn't getting any replies and might not realise that the people present on the boards have already talked themselves out - at those times, pointing out previous discussion threads will give the new person a chance to find the answers they're looking for.

But these are discussion boards, and I doubt we can exhaust all avenues on any given topic - even (heaven forbid) Balrog wings.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


(This post was edited by Ataahua on May 4 2008, 9:59pm)


Elven
Valinor


May 4 2008, 6:23am

Post #27 of 40 (343 views)
Shortcut
I just heard the voice of Judy Dench :D ... as a spider :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



Starling
Half-elven


May 4 2008, 6:36am

Post #28 of 40 (337 views)
Shortcut
Oh yes, I think I can hear that too. // [In reply to] Can't Post



palantiriel
The Shire


May 4 2008, 8:16pm

Post #29 of 40 (370 views)
Shortcut
Telepathy... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would fit nicely as we've already had Galadriel's telepathy in LOTR, and it probably would look better than Smaug having an anthrophamorphic mouth (ugh, which I hate on film animals - it's just creepy!). Although he and Bilbo have quite a long conversation, and Smaug needs to beable to show emotion and thought whilst he speaks.


_V_
Lorien


May 4 2008, 8:27pm

Post #30 of 40 (370 views)
Shortcut
You mean just have Smaug's voice in Bilbo's head? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"


palantiriel
The Shire


May 4 2008, 8:39pm

Post #31 of 40 (334 views)
Shortcut
Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be a possibility, and it's something already established in the LOTR films, so it wouldn't look out of place in The Hobbit. But it might look a bit stagnant on-screen during their long conversation if Smaug doesn't use expressions that usually come with physical talking.


_V_
Lorien


May 4 2008, 9:07pm

Post #32 of 40 (351 views)
Shortcut
I didn't mean to upset or stiffle discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry I was just tired and upset at the time I said that that I wanted to discuss/debate "can the animals talk or will they?" and I was a little upset at what sounded like a "why bother debating it" response (because I honestly want to know what you guys think if only for fun), though ultimately that is a point that pragmatically, we're going to enjoy it either way (when you think about it, honestly neither decision would "ruin the film" for me; if the animals ultimately DO NOT talk, I'll enjoy seeing how GDT gets around that for plot reasons)

As for "Elitism" on messageboards yeah I hate that too, but I would NEVER tell you to just "use the search function" and I HATE it when people do that; I just got tired and was upset that I thought no one would even want to discuss this. I mean the one sentence "I think it would be cool for Smaug to talk with telepathy" I think is a great reply, but doesn't need to be based on book knowledge or anything like that, no.

So I do hate the "social clique" stuff found on other messageboards: I've noticed that Ringers NEVER do that: I mean bring up like...."midichlorians" on a Star Wars board and you'll be told to shut up and "search".

Lord of the Rings fans, much like Hobbits, LOVE...going over information they kind of already know (As I say, it's comforting to know its there, like rereading a book) so if you ask on here "Do Balrogs Have Wings".....people will not chastise you, but JUMP at the chance to explain it again ....we're weird like that :)

But as for "Elitism" of knowledge....honestly whenever someone asks a question I feel obligated to explain and instruct the noobies as much as possible. I mean, we're not trying to hoarde the knowldge but to open people up to Tolkien and explain it as best we can. The thing is that LOTR is a book adaptation of a major literary work, not just an action movie, so a lot of the discussion can get fairly “in-depth”. My fear is that the “in-depth” discussion will scare off noobies, when we’re not really writing it for ourselves anymore so much as for them.
As for “Elitism”, we’re honestly trying to spread the knowledge, but frankly, we’ve got a very knowledgeable fanbase and say, Magpie, Arwen’s Daughter, and Gramma know more about the costumes, music, and tidbits of the films than I could realistically aspire to achieve myself :) And I respect that the know more than I do. Stephen Colbert had a good segment about this the other day:http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=166772 (skip to 3:00 minutes into it)


Guest: “Elitist is just another one of those stupid words, that really means “anyone who knows anything” – “
Stephen Colbert: “-- Of course you say that “Elitist is a stupid word”…because you’re an Elitist! This whole book is Elitist! ”Knowing things that other people don’t know” is the *definition* of “Elitist”! You’re an intellectual-elitist if you know something and I don’t! And that gives me the right to point my finger at you, and call you an Elitist!”:)

So I'm sorry I got upset: what is your take on the talking animals situation? I'm curious and would like to know. I really hadn't considered just "telepathy" before reading this thread...

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"


Glaurung63
Lorien

May 4 2008, 9:24pm

Post #33 of 40 (329 views)
Shortcut
Cool...now about dragon voices... [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool, V, I appreciate your posts and look forward to many great Hobbit debates.....I remember the intensity of LOTR speculation, and would sneak peaks at TORn during work hours, and then "take a break" to pop in to offices and spread what I'd heard....we were all so stoked to be sort of "in on" the making of LOTR through TORn!

Now, with a handle like Glaurung 63 I should have an opinion about dragon voices, and the telepathy things sounds interesting, but I agree that the voice of a dragon, to cast spells on people, is arguably one of the most deadly weapons a dragon has....so I think Smaug must speak, but perhaps in a lower register, or whisper....but the thing is, I don't think it should sound sinister, but cool and logical....like Saruman, but not...


_V_
Lorien


May 4 2008, 11:17pm

Post #34 of 40 (350 views)
Shortcut
Smaug: loud or soft? [In reply to] Can't Post

the thing with Smaug is I think he should physically talk (what the books did)...but....if his voice is BOOMing, REALLY loud and MONSTERish....I think it would come off as a bit, well, garish.

It re-enforces the "he's a big monster" cliche if the film's sound is literally BOOMing with his voice and so much distortion we can barely hear him.

I mean....Sauron's voice, briefly heard in FOTR....kind of works well in lines like "BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTH OF MORDOR"....but the "Wraith-world" scenes had dialogue which I honestly could not make out invidual words for until repeat viewing: in the Bree scene he says "There is no life in the Void, only death" (actually that's a Morgoth quote, but hey, he was Morgoth's lieutenant so he must agree...)

anyway, I've seen too many movies where the monster's voice is so BOOMING loud I cannot hear it.

Frankly I wouldn't be opposed to say, Christopher Lee voicing Smaug if he felt up to it; (not literally but...) I mean, it doesn't have to be a booming voice, just a "smart, calculating, "in command" voice.

***This raises another question: what accent should he speak with? I'm going for "Received Pronunciation" (how Gandalf and Saruman talk, a proper educated British accent...Hobbits have Midlands accents and the Gondorians have a bit more of a "London" accent than "RP")

I would not be opposed in such a line of reasoning, to Alan Rickman...but I feel his voice is TOO reckognizable.

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"


merklynn
Lorien


May 5 2008, 12:26pm

Post #35 of 40 (617 views)
Shortcut
I'm pro-telepathy [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't mean to get on a high horse, I just interpreted the posts in such a way that it reminded me of the elitism that pervades most fan and hobby circles. But to answer your question on my opinion... The more I think about it, the more telepathy appeals to me at least in terms of how the communication between the talking beasts and humans should be handled in the films. I think literally speaking would be too jarring and too Narnia like for Tolkien's world, at least on screen when they are striving for a sort of historical feel. So I'm all for not showing or hearing the talking animals speak, but implying it through the human interaction.


sherlock
Gondor


May 5 2008, 3:27pm

Post #36 of 40 (299 views)
Shortcut
I agree that Smaug's voice [In reply to] Can't Post

should not be loud but sly and sinister. I also agree with the British accent and having an unrecognizable voice - distinctive but one you couldn't pin on a certain actor. I can't wait to find out who GDT has in mind.


keithf777
The Shire

May 5 2008, 11:35pm

Post #37 of 40 (309 views)
Shortcut
If talking animals are OK with old J.R.R., they're OK with me... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
To keep these movies feeling real enough, thtey should avoid it at all costs.

It's been mentioned around here they might not talk, but a couple of characters might understand them. Namely Gandalf. There's no problem with the raven communicating Smaug's weakness, the problem would be seeing him talk... this is not Narnia.



As I replied to your message on this same subject in a different thread:

If Tolkien wrote it, it is Middle Earth-like whether it appeals to you or not. Damn straight it's not Narnia, It's Middle-Earth. And some animals talk in Middle Earth!

Whether the filmmakers choose to change this aspect of Middle Earth or not is their choice... I just don't agree with your argument against it. Why exactly does a fantasy movie need to be concerned with feeling 'real enough'?

Cheers,
Keith


keithf777
The Shire

May 6 2008, 5:13am

Post #38 of 40 (356 views)
Shortcut
I'm getting tired of 'thats too much like Narnia' and the like! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Personally, he should talk, like the book. But I also believe that he should speak telepathically, because it would look pretty cheesy and narniaish if he opens his mouth constantly. If they do this, the voice can be creepy and evil... going on the lines of Saurons voice being bruned into Frodo when he wore the ring.



Here we go again... 'pretty cheesy and Narniaish...' puh-leese!

I'll tell you what, a talking Smaug isn't Narnia-ish at all. It's Tolkien-ish. Our favorite author wrote it. Sure he had complaints about The Hobbit later in life. But I don't remember reading that he ever said that Smaug shouldn't have talked.

Many of Tolkien's complaints were quoted to me in another similar thread as evidence that we should embrace changes to many of the book's more childlike traits. As I went on a little long in saying, I don't have any problems with the fairly-tale aspects of The Hobbit. Likewise, I will accept whatever the filmmakers do and probably enjoy it. But I fail to see, now as before, how merry elves, talking spiders, or a talking dragon would detract from your enjoyment of the story, in a book or on the screen.

Assuming that the filmmakers will handle the material seriously... if you can suspend your disbelief enough to accept wizards, trolls, dwarves, hobbits, ghosts and goblins, balrogs and necromancers, how exactly is it that you have a problem with a dragon that talks?

Cheers!
Keith


_V_
Lorien


May 10 2008, 2:27pm

Post #39 of 40 (277 views)
Shortcut
They can no more remove the talking animals than they can "talking trees"!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

and remember when people thought "Talking Trees" would be silly on screen? And now the Ents are environmentalist poster-boys!

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"


_V_
Lorien


May 13 2008, 6:31pm

Post #40 of 40 (310 views)
Shortcut
Talking Beasts = Childish? Folklore if full of that [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTS of folklore, be it Germanic, Celtic, or Greco-Roman, features "talking beasts"...yet they are considered to be quite serious parts of folklore and mythology. I mean its Archetypal: the talking animals, etc.

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.