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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Sewing Balin together

orcbane
Gondor


May 1 2008, 12:37pm

Post #1 of 12 (301 views)
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Sewing Balin together Can't Post

That there are disparities tween The Hobbit & Lotr is well established. Tolkien himself noted some, but only went back and physically changed one, which was Gollum. Tolkien Ret-con #1.

Balin in The Hobbit seems a pleasant sort of old Dwarf, a kind of wise and experienced Grandfather to me. Of all of Thorin's company he stands out with his good sense and qualities. He also comes accross as mildly senile. His comment at Elrond's when they are examining the map is positively daft.

Yet when he is even older he sways a large group of dwarves into leaving the lonely mountain against the king's wishes, to carve himself out a realm in Moria. How he changes from 'old Balin' into a forceful and somewhat rebellious leader and lord is not explained. It is probably coincidence, but I wonder, that it was Balin that visits Bilbo with Gandalf in the last scene of The Hobbit.



An Ent juggling spikey things ?


Dreamdeer
Valinor


May 1 2008, 3:18pm

Post #2 of 12 (117 views)
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Daft is no barrier [In reply to] Can't Post

I need look no farther than American politics, past, present and undoubtedly future, to see that plenty of people seem downright eager to follow charmingly senile leaders down any pit that the old dodderers happen to fall into. And often these grandfatherly types do get a bug up their brains about restoring past glories, no matter how loudly more sensible people cry out, "No! No! Don't DO that!" It's their favorite kind of pit.

My website http://www.dreamdeer.grailmedia.com offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 1 2008, 4:49pm

Post #3 of 12 (118 views)
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I've always taken it that Balin [In reply to] Can't Post

followed Thorin as his leader. Once Oakenshield was gone, Balin's personality brought the clan together and went on his own quest to restore a long-lost Dwarven Realm. Not for treasure, but for home.

I love Balin in The Hobbit. He seemed to connect to Bilbo and respected him very early on.

I want to see Balin in film2 as he brings his kindred together and leaves for Moria, full of hope and anticipation. That last visit with Bilbo could be carried into film2 and be for the purpose to tell Bilbo of his plans. Maybe mentioning Gloin wishing to go along, but has to stay and take care of the family business/interests with his son, Gimli ;)



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Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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carrioncrow
Lorien

May 1 2008, 4:52pm

Post #4 of 12 (103 views)
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maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

There is the influence of The Ring at work...and he, among Thorin's Company, is a veteran of Thrain's earlier tragic attempted return to Erebor.

I wouldn't mind him being portrayed as slightly cracked. I almost see a "Bully" TRoosevelt vibe to Balin which can shift quickly from genial to marshall.


orcbane
Gondor


May 1 2008, 6:34pm

Post #5 of 12 (111 views)
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They are coming.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I want to see Balin in film2 as he brings his kindred together and leaves for Moria, full of hope and anticipation. That last visit with Bilbo could be carried into film2 and be for the purpose to tell Bilbo of his plans. Maybe mentioning Gloin wishing to go along, but has to stay and take care of the family business/interests with his son, Gimli ;)


Me too & three. I always thought seeing that last stand in Balin's tomb (with Ori or was it Oin) would be a very cool connection to the Fotr. How that one guy ended up sitting on the well stuck full of arrows has always perplexed me.



An Ent juggling spikey things ?


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 1 2008, 7:04pm

Post #6 of 12 (89 views)
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oooo! [In reply to] Can't Post

That would be amazing to see the well-leaner and how he came to be there. Pippin seemed drawn to him, so maybe there could be an interesting tie-in there, too?!



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


May 1 2008, 7:35pm

Post #7 of 12 (85 views)
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And let's not forget ... [In reply to] Can't Post

The poor fellow scratching down notes ... until the bitter end!

I think that could be an incredibly moving scene, actually. Wounded warriors ... knowing all is lost ... resigned to their fate ... waiting for the end.

I'm really keen to see Moria in full flower ... before the darkness. I really hope that's included in the sprequel. I think that would be remarkable. I'd love to see a fully operational and vibrant Dwarf city. I've always felt the Dwarves were under-represented in the trilogy (it was always the Elves this and the Elves that), so it will be nice for their culture to get their due in the new films.

Of course, truth be told, I'd be thrilled if GDT just avoids dignity-scuffing moments like belching, farting and tossing!


"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


orcbane
Gondor


May 1 2008, 8:00pm

Post #8 of 12 (83 views)
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Balin was the most interested in ... [In reply to] Can't Post

how Bilbo managed his stunts. Very curious he was, but it seemed at the time to be mostly related to a hurt pride or just perhaps professional interest over how someone could evade his skills as a lookout. Maybe there is something of the ring in it and the more that I think about it the more it makes sense. It is a logical explanation for a dramatic personality shift.

Oh and I think he got so many people to follow him to Moria by promising to eliminate the hated 'Axe Tax'. Laugh



An Ent juggling spikey things ?


burrahobbit
Rohan


May 1 2008, 8:20pm

Post #9 of 12 (76 views)
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Can the Balin story contribute anything new to film 2? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Balin storyline tells of his return to the ancient dwarven homeland where their desire for treasure awakened a fiery monster... i.e. thematically very similar to Erebor and Smaug in the first Hobbit film.

From a fan point of view it's cool to imagine seeing Balin's last stand in Moria. I'm not sure though that the story is novel enough or has engaging enough protagonists to play a big part in the bridge film.

I can definitely imagine Balin's visit to Bag End being there (maybe linking to discussion of darkness rising in Mirkwood, Bilbo visiting Rivendell) and perhaps we could see Balin set out for Moria (spurred out by Sauron's emissary to illustrate Sauron's rising power). I'm not so sure that we'll see a detailed telling of the return to Moria.


        
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orcbane
Gondor


May 1 2008, 10:36pm

Post #10 of 12 (68 views)
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They don't teach what they can't pronounce [In reply to] Can't Post

Your probably right about the similiarity to Erebor. Overall the dwarves as BuckyU points out are under-represented and are a rich vein to mine though.

Another possibility is that Anazuzalibazzabubble-what-ya-ma-call-it battle. Azog and burnt dwarves.

The lesser ring of Thrain was it ?

Balin after his own precious ? Balin finding his own precious ? Anything is possible.

Balin, in the book dies before the last stand, shot with an arrow while gazing into.....that lake out the front door. Confusicate these dwarves with their entirely impossible language. Laugh



An Ent juggling spikey things ?


sador
Half-elven

May 2 2008, 7:02am

Post #11 of 12 (47 views)
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In Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

It wa Balin who led the dwarves in their attack on the spiders. And he was addressed together with Thorin by Roac. So he does seem to nbe quite formidable by then.
Balin was also older than Dain, which accounts for his willingness to establish a realm of his own, and perhaps Dain did not really regret his leaving? One can never know.

But I was puzzled by the comment you called 'daft'. My edition of the Hobbit is Houghton Miflin 1979, and in it Balin says noting whatsoever in all the visit to Rivendell (neither does any other dwarf, exceptfor Thorin). Do you mean his comment about the dragon at Bilbo's? I don't see that as so stupid. He is attracted by the Red ink, but comments it is hardly useful. What's wrong with that?

"I'm not going to do anything with you: not if by that you mean 'do something to you' without your leave. We might do some things together" - Treebeard


merklynn
Lorien


May 2 2008, 1:43pm

Post #12 of 12 (80 views)
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Balin as Boromir [In reply to] Can't Post

I too would love to see more of the Dwarves realms visualized on screen as they exist at the time of the movie's events, and not simply the deserted Moria. Even if its just very brief... just flesh out the poor old Dwarves... and also allow them to be more than just comic relief. They should show that their abilities in battle justify their reputation as hardy fighters far bigger in power than their heigh suggests.

I love Balin, and I think the idea of him being lured by the ring isn't a bad one. Hopefully not used in a manner that would warp Balin into anything dislikable. But making him more tragic in the sense that we know why he got fired up about Moria perhaps.

 
 

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