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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Apr 23 2008, 9:29pm
Post #26 of 33
(275 views)
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You are absolutely right--we dissect words on the internet because they are all we have to go by. Face to face, a person might take the sting out of a word (or pack more in) by tone of voice, facial expression, gesture, stance, all kinds of things. Since we cannot do this on the internet (even smileys do not help much  ) we all slowly, painfully, acquire new verbal skills to compensate. But that strengthens our minds and character in the long run, I believe.
I see nothing wrong with offering a dissenting opinion, and indeed take pleasure in testing my ideas against other points of view. The thought of Gandalf blasted through the air down the steps really livened up that scene for me! We simply all need skill in how we disagree.
The internet gives me tremendous hope, in fact. I never know what cultural assumptions I have, what prejudices and misperceptions, until I accidentally step on the toes of somebody who (without me realizing it) comes from a completely different background from myself. And I do not always know how I come across to others until an encounter on the internet leaves me no doubt.
Do you realize what a fantastic, enormous social experiment plays out before us here, the like of which the world has never seen before? How anybody, anywhere in the world, in any class, religion, race, political party, culture, or subculture, can intermingle with any other, just human being to human being? How we can meet and get to know each other like never before, beyond the reach of any propaganda trying to stop us from perceiving each other's humanity? Isn't it wonderful that we can live in this time, and see this unfold, and step by step, through trial and error, forge a global ettiquite and spread a mutual understanding that could stop the next World War before it begins?
Maybe it will all fall flat. Maybe the human race won't make the best of this amazing opportunity. But for the first time in history, the internet has raised "world peace" to a whole new level of possibility, and we should run with it for all it's worth.
My website http://www.dreamdeer.grailmedia.com offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Apr 23 2008, 11:36pm
Post #27 of 33
(257 views)
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but why would Gandalf need to tell them he was thrown backwards down the stairs...when they witnessed him falling to the ground in the midst of the Company? Surely, they would have noticed that he came down backwards? If he landed on his back, why do they need to be told the obvious? Why explain to them what they had already seen with their own eyes? ;)
Since you continue to misremember/misrepresent what people have actually said about that topic (and certain others as well), it really might be a good idea give up trying to change their minds and simply agree to disagree..... No digging the horse up again every couple of months or so, you know? ;)
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Curious
Half-elven
Apr 23 2008, 11:59pm
Post #28 of 33
(251 views)
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if you are very precise about who said what before you dispute it, instead of paraphrasing the opposing point of view. It also helps to check from time to time to make sure no one is taking offense, being overly polite if necessary. And if someone does take offense, whether you think it is justified or not, I find it helps to apologize immediately, and drop the subject.
I like to argue as much as anyone here, I judge (and I think others will back me on this!), and I always try to view it as a team effort, in which we test each other's theories in order to reach common ground. Even so, I have annoyed more than a few people, and the only thing I know how to do is apologize immediately. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Apr 24 2008, 12:00am
Post #29 of 33
(248 views)
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We can strip away race, age, gender etc. and relate to people directly spirit to spirit. It's really an amazing thing. I remember the day I found out Inferno was a woman, after thinking for years she was a man (I wasn't the only one who thought she was a 60-year-old man, and it turned out she is a much younger woman.) Luckily I found out before I met her face to face, or I really would have been standing there with my mouth open.
Ten years ago I met a woman on the Internet who became a dear friend (Celandine Goodbody). For seven years we corresponded before we met face to face. She had never even shared a photo, so when she stepped out of her car I had my first look at someone who was and is one of my dearest friends. It was surreal. All weekend I kept thinking "This woman is an amazing actress to be able to portray ____ so well." She had all the right words, but my brain had a hard time with the visual after seven years.
To tell the truth, this isn't entirely new to the Internet. The person who first turned me on to Tolkien back in 1969 was a pen-pal. But we didn't get the large-scale community back then with pen-pal correspondences.
Anyway, I enjoyed your thoughts. The best way to break down the walls of prejudice is to meet people one on one. If I know someone from a certain group as a human being, it makes it harder to demonize that group. And the Internet gets us past the immediate identification of the group. We can meet the person first, and only later find out things about them that might have stopped us from getting acquainted if we'd known right away. I've often thought that a place like TORn must be a little what Heaven might be like.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea
Apr 24 2008, 2:19am
Post #30 of 33
(239 views)
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I appreciate your sincere apology and am very glad that you're not angry about anything I said in my post. I really don't want to tell you or anyone what they can or cannot say, I just want to do my part to stand up for keeping this a pleasant and friendly message board. As to your question, others have given good advice. I'll second the motions to discuss in a courteous manner, to drop the subject when it's been pretty well discussed, and to apologize immediately if someone takes offense. Thanks again for being receptive and not defensive.
Where's Frodo?
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Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea
Apr 24 2008, 2:20am
Post #31 of 33
(256 views)
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You just made me get all misty-eyed about the internet, Dreamdeer.//
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Where's Frodo?
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Elenedhel
Rivendell
Apr 28 2008, 1:01am
Post #32 of 33
(214 views)
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I think Pippin feels guilty about the fact that Boromir died to save Merry and himself. I mean, if they hadn't gone off looking for Frodo all by themselves then he wouldn't have needed to come rescue him. He could also be dreaming about it because it was a recent traumatic experience, and therefore it is on his mind.
I think Tolkien came up with a lot of ideas for LotR using memories from World War One. This could very well be one of them. The corpses in the Dead Marshes came almost directly from his experiences in the war.
"O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees,
Thy starlight on the Western Seas."
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Apr 28 2008, 1:12am
Post #33 of 33
(243 views)
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And "tunnel" appears again in this chapter.
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"Evil dreams and evil waking were blended into a long tunnel of misery, with hope growing ever fainter behind."
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Apr. 21-27 for "The Uruk-hai".
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