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erevando
Registered User
Apr 9 2008, 4:38am
Post #1 of 14
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Tolkien, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Myth
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I've just been reading through 'The Letters of JRR Tolkien' and one of them, from JRRT to his son Christopher in 1944, really struck me:
....Your reference to the care of your guardian angel makes me fear that 'he' is being specially needed. I dare say it is so....It also reminded me of a sudden vision (or perhaps apperception which at once turned itself into pictorial form in my mind) I had not long ago when spending half an hour in St Gregory's before the Blessed Sacrament when the Quarant' Ore [=forty hours devotion] was being held there. I perceived or thought of the Light of God and in it suspended one small mote (or millions of motes to only one of which was my small mind directed), glittering white because of the individual ray from the Light which both held and lit it. (Not that there were individual rays issuing from the Light, but the mere existence of the mote and its position in relation to the Light was in itself a line, and the line was Light). And the ray was the Guardian Angel of the mote; not a thing interposed between God and the creature, but God's very attention itself, personalized. And I do not mean 'personified', by a mere figure of speech according to the tendencies of human language, but a real (finite) person. Thinking of it since - for the whole thing was very immediate, and not recapturable in clumsy language, certainly not the great sense of joy that accompanied it and the realization that the shining poised mote was myself (or any other human person that I might think of with love) - it has occurred to me that (I speak diffidently and have no idea whether such a notion is legitimate: it is at any rate quite separate from the vision of the Light and the poised mote) this is a finite parallel to the Infinite. As the love of the Father and Son (who are infinite and equal) is a Person, so the love and attention of the Light to the Mote is a person (that is both with us and in Heaven): finite but divine: i.e. angelic.
I think this is such a beautiful and original idea - that the attention of God, Himself a person but an infinite person so beyond the capacity of our finite minds (at present anyway) to comprehend, can itself be an actual person. Or, if attention is too strong a word, the mere fact of a relationship between God and His creature implied by the existence of both. The image of lines of sight extending from the centre to all souls in existence (each partially reflecting the primary light rather like Leibniz's monads in relation to the Prime Monad) reminds me of Buddhist images of the Buddha of ten thousand eyes, or Buddha with rays of light extending out from him touching others, except that by comparison to these mere lines of sight Tolkien's vision seems so much more alive and personal and interesting!
Reading through others of the letters, you can see that Tolkien had given the idea of God quite a lot of thought, and he talks about the Infinite, and 'real' Eternity outside Time, as opposed to unending duration through time (the tormented because unnatural longevity of the Ringwraiths or the natural but in the end wearisome longevity of the Elves), in a strikingly similar way to the way Joseph Campbell talks about escaping from Time into the Eternal (conceived of as a state beyond time and its attendant dualities).
I guess I just want to say I'm impressed and wanted your reactions to this letter.
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 9 2008, 12:59pm
Post #2 of 14
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glittering white because of the individual ray from the Light which both held and lit it. (Not that there were individual rays issuing from the Light, but the mere existence of the mote and its position in relation to the Light was in itself a line, and the line was Light). And the ray was the Guardian Angel of the mote; not a thing interposed between God and the creature, but God's very attention itself, personalized.
I must say that when God (Jesus) revealed himself to me, He came in the form of a very bright light in the midst of a dark night (of the soul too). To this day, I can close my eyes & sense the presence of The Holy Spirit, the 'God's very attention itself' Tolkien refers to, in the form of light within my mind's eye.
except that by comparison to these mere lines of sight Tolkien's vision seems so much more alive and personal and interesting!
Well, Tolkien is referring to the true Christian walk - a personal walk with God through accepting Jesus' sacrifice & experiencing the loving touch of The Holy Spirit. That's what it's all about, not all the fundamentalistic dogma we Christians get lost in so often.
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Apr 9 2008, 4:14pm
Post #3 of 14
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Respecting our Buddhist sibs (and I do know Buddhist Tolkien fans) I am sure that their images of light radiating from the Buddha is quite vivid and alive for them. But yes, it is particularly fulfilling to hear such imagery expressed in one's own religion.
In any case, Light is a powerful and universal archetype, our closest metaphor for spiritual reality, from the earliest human days of observing the difference between day (which made all things clear and observable, and infused them in color) and night (which obscured everything and robbed it all of color, plunging us into the frightening unknown.)
That said, I do have to, personally, relate Tolkien's vision to my own, praying before the Eucharist, when I perceived an infinite number of ultraviolet lines connecting to all things, including me. I will have to admit that my narcolepsy* can easily explain away my visions as "hypnagogic hallucination"--that is, slipping partially into dreaming while awake, something a narcoleptic is quite prone to do. Yet it was, for me, an incredible experience, carrying at least as much validity as a dream, and helping me to grasp the interconnection of all things through the Divine.
*Narcolepsy: a neurological condition in which the sleep-center of the brain occasionally goes into seizure, causing the patient to fall asleep, in full or in part, at unexpected moments. It also at times blends waking and dreaming brain waves (alpha and delta) blurs the line between asleep and awake, and additionally causes chronic fatigue as well as a propensity for fibromyalgia, but on the plus side produces abnormally vivid dreams, increases dream recall, and facillitates lucid dreaming and trance states. Not to be confused with anything to do with narcotics, the only connection being the root word, "narcos", which means "sleep". (I thought I'd better clarify the definition so that young or ESL readers won't think I'm a druggie.)
My website http://www.dreamdeer.grailmedia.com offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 10 2008, 2:51am
Post #4 of 14
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I know quite well what narcolepsey is....
(others may not though), having some sleep issues myself - apnea among them.
As for 'seeing the light', don't be so sure it's your imagination! 
Don't believe too much in our scientific, everything is logical, explanable brains........
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erevando
Registered User
Apr 10 2008, 12:16pm
Post #5 of 14
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Light is a universal image for sure and no doubt for Buddhists their own images have more emotional content than they do for Christians; but my point is one thing is completely missing from the typical image of light including (so far as I know anyway) the Buddhist image: that is, Tolkien's idea that the light is a guardian angel.
In Buddhism they have Boddhisatvas which function a bit like angels, but they all start as enlightened human beings, rather than being created out of the Buddha's vision.
As Tolkien himself says, this may not accord with orthodox Christian belief at all, but it's how he envisioned it.
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 10 2008, 12:55pm
Post #6 of 14
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that is, Tolkien's idea that the light is a guardian angel.
I do not believe that Tolkien is saying this at all, even though he uses the term 'angel' at one point. He is talking about The Holy Spirit, God's presence Himself, that touchs Christians with love & power......
He backs this this up with this statement:
'God's very attention itself'
As Tolkien himself says, this may not accord with orthodox Christian belief at all, but it's how he envisioned it.
Actually, this is in accord with true biblical Christianity, but not in accord with dead religious Christianity that most know & think of Christianity as. 
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Apr 10 2008, 4:06pm
Post #7 of 14
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In the earliest portions of the Bible, "Angel" and "God" were used interchangeably, which some theologians see as angels being indivualized, personalized aspects of God, almost like embodied benign alternate personality fragments--having individual identities, yet part of a larger whole. Tolkien's vision puts forth the same or a similar principle very nicely indeed. One could also consider such lines manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and this might not contradict the angel idea at all, as one would presume that an unfallen angel is thoroughly suffused with the Holy Spirit.
My website http://www.dreamdeer.grailmedia.com offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 10 2008, 7:47pm
Post #8 of 14
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In the earliest portions of the Bible, "Angel" and "God" were used interchangeably,
I don't know if that's entiely accurate.....
Often, in the Old Testament, God appeared as 'The Angel of the Lord', which most Bible Scholars will say was a 'pre-incarnate' version of Jesus......
For example, before Sodom & Gomorra are wiped out, 3 angels appear to Abraham & one is called 'the lord' if not 'the angel of the lord'. Whichever,the inferrence there is clear that God is on the scene.
On the other hand, the earliest example of an angel appearing in the bible is after Adam & Eve are forced to leave the Garden of Eden & an angel with a flaming sword (sounds like a Balrog) is placed at the gate to prevent their return, yet this is 'just' an angel.
Even a quick look through the concordance reveals that the bible goes back & forth between 'angel' & angel of the lord' in the Old Testament.....
In the New Testament, post Jesus, however, 'Angel of the Lord' is only used once, when Peter is miracuously delivered from prison in Acts & then it's a matter of phrasing: 'AN Angel of the Lord appeared to Peter...' not 'THE Angel of the Lord'
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erevando
Registered User
Apr 11 2008, 6:28am
Post #9 of 14
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I don't see how you can say he's talking about the Holy Spirit when he explains quite clearly what he means:
And the ray was the Guardian Angel of the mote; not a thing interposed between God and the creature, but God's very attention itself, personalized. And I do not mean 'personified', by a mere figure of speech according to the tendencies of human language, but a real (finite) person
The light = God's attention personalized = a real guardian angel
*Not* the Holy Spirit since that is *not* a finite person. He even speculates later that perhaps the Holy Spirit is also God's attention, but the much higher form of attention between God the Father and God the Son, which forms an *infinite* person, God the Holy Ghost.
Are these ideas at all in line with orthodox Christian belief? I somehow doubt it, since I've always understood angels to be created beings.
that is, Tolkien's idea that the light is a guardian angel. I do not believe that Tolkien is saying this at all, even though he uses the term 'angel' at one point. He is talking about The Holy Spirit, God's presence Himself, that touchs Christians with love & power...... He backs this this up with this statement: 'God's very attention itself' As Tolkien himself says, this may not accord with orthodox Christian belief at all, but it's how he envisioned it. Actually, this is in accord with true biblical Christianity, but not in accord with dead religious Christianity that most know & think of Christianity as. |
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 11 2008, 3:00pm
Post #10 of 14
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I direct you to the passage you yourself 'cut & pasted':
but God's very attention itself, personalized. And I do not mean 'personified', by a mere figure of speech according to the tendencies of human language, but a real (finite) person
The Holy Spirit is indeed a 'person', so to speak: The third 'person' of the Godhead, God Himself, as much a 'person' as God the father.
As much a 'person' , in spirit form as an angel which is also spirit, is too.
Tolkien may call the light he experienced a 'guardian angel', but he is describing the light as The Holy Spirit. If you read my first post, you'll understand why I say this with certainty - I've experienced The Holy Spirit as this light myself for many years now.
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erevando
Registered User
Apr 13 2008, 1:34am
Post #11 of 14
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The Holy Spirit cannot be described as a finite person
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The issue is not whether the Holy Spirit is a person but that it is more than the mere finite person of an angel or human. I don't doubt your experience and Tolkien would probably be the first to admit your experience might be more valid than his own, momentary, vision; but we are discussing what he meant. Given that he is careful to describe God's attention personified as a 'finite' person, how can he have meant the Holy Spirit?
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silneldor
Half-elven
Apr 13 2008, 11:04pm
Post #12 of 14
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I agree with you on this point.
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'Actually, this is in accord with true biblical Christianity, but not in accord with dead religious Christianity that most know & think of Christianity as.'
I believe the original Christian message has to be carefully sought. The 'biblical word' over the centuries i feel has been distorted or lost completely it's true sense.
"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez
May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!
In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu
From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Apr 14 2008, 7:44pm
Post #13 of 14
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Everando, I really do not want to get into an endless debate, which I can sense this is where we are going......
If you understand the nature of God & His word (the bible), not only by reading it, but by asking God to give you understanding, you'd see the The Holy Spirit is God the Father & is Jesus, 3 in 1. He, simple yet infinitely complex.......
Wish I could explain it better, but my revelatoin is about 8 pages long so far & that's probably a bit much for here.....  .
But as such, I believe understand exactly what Tolkien is saying, he's just using slightly different words than me - we're only debating semantics here - he's talking about the very Spirit of God manifesting Himself in an intimate form to our spirits.
'God is Spirit & those who seek Him must seek Him in spirit & in truth' .
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a.s.
Valinor
Apr 14 2008, 10:58pm
Post #14 of 14
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Tolkien's "Mote Guardians" are Guardian Angels
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I'm not up to a full discussion, just cruising by (still recovering from surgery). But the letter you quoted is one of my favorite Tolkien quotes, one I've certainly thought of many times, not only in the applicability to "angels" per se, but in our human ability to be "mote guardians" to one another as well. At any point in time, we are always either someone's light, or someone's mote. I believe in human co-responsibility; even if there isn't such a thing as a "Guardian Angel" for each one of us, we can each be someone's guardian in some sense. And should be, are called to be, are responsible for being.
In fact, I used to have a blog called "The Mote in the Light" (dormant now) and that letter from Tolkien was my inspiration.
Tolkien believed in personal Guardian Angels. An earlier letter (#54) to Christopher reminds him to remember his Guardian Angel, and describes a guardian angel as standing in the line of the direct connection we have with God "...the bright point of power where that life-line, that spiritual umbilical cord touches: there is our Angel, facing two ways to God behind us in the direction we cannot see, and to us." And although that's not exactly the image he uses in his "mote in the light" quotation, it's close. It's a visual image of light ("bright point") at any rate.
In a later letter (#213) he tells a reader that "only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God himself, could unravel the real relationship between personal facts and an author's work". In other words, we each have a specific Guardian Angel who knows us intimately, better than we know ourselves. God has directed that Guardian Angel to be our protector. The Angel is, in other words, "God's very attention itself, personalized".
I don't necessarily believe in Guardian Angels, but it's a nice way to think about the concept of God's individual attention!
Or my two cents, anyway.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"Good night, little girls, thank the Lord you are well!
Now go to sleep" said Miss Clavel.
And she turned out the light and shut the door,
And that's all there is. There isn't any more.
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