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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
That moment when Gandalf tries to clean his pipe...
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Noria
Gondor

Jan 31 2015, 1:28pm

Post #26 of 42 (966 views)
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For me this is one of the loveliest moments in all six movies. [In reply to] Can't Post

for all the reasons mentioned above.

As Voronwe said in the other thread - who says Peter Jackson can't do subtle?


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Jan 31 2015, 1:59pm

Post #27 of 42 (986 views)
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I don't know if you have been close to death [In reply to] Can't Post

Or tragedy, and I'm not asking, as that would be inappropriate, but from my own experience we don't stop being human or stop being complex.

I've never noticed that death in real life is particularly grand or stage managed. The prosaic, the fallible, the ridiculous, the powerless moments are all there the day someone dies, just as they are every day in reality. Death doesn't, as far as my own past goes, simply or purify emotions. It complicates them.

For me, that's why I thought the scene was so much better than solemn weeping or wailing and rending of clothes, which are much more standard fare - it does a better job of reflecting humanity, in my eyes (despite neither of the characters strictly being human!)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 31 2015, 3:18pm

Post #28 of 42 (960 views)
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No, it isn't inappropriate.... [In reply to] Can't Post

The death of someone close - even without the sound and fury of battle - is too overwhelming to process at once. Stunned silence is far more likely than great displays of emotion, and you really do notice and focus on little, inconsequential things . Life goes on around you just the same. People still sneeze, drop things, fiddle with a pipe - and that's something real to hold onto while your inner reality changes and shifts. Gandalf knows this and he offers Bilbo complete understanding. That's a beautiful, subtle scene - one of the best in all six films - played out by two actors who really know what they're doing.


Thrain II
Lorien


Jan 31 2015, 4:07pm

Post #29 of 42 (924 views)
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Yes, it is. [In reply to] Can't Post

For me, and many other people I know. And we can agree to disagree. Smile

For me it is the worst in all films, well after ridiculous love triangle and Benny Hill chase in Erebor. Wink


Riven Delve
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2015, 4:58pm

Post #30 of 42 (908 views)
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Well expressed, Spriggan. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”



Starling
Half-elven


Jan 31 2015, 6:43pm

Post #31 of 42 (914 views)
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I would point out [In reply to] Can't Post

that there are many different kinds of laughter. I saw the film yesterday and there was gentle laughter during this scene, but it is a very different kind of laughter to the way people laughed when Bilbo admitted to the key stealing, or when Alfrid hitched up his gold filled undergarments. Sometimes laughter comes from a place of sympathy, or empathy, or discomfort, or confusion, or a whole range of emotions that can come and go during times of difficulty and sorrow. And that's why I love this scene so much - it resonates with emotional truth.
I can't think of anything else to say to 'defend' this scene, which I really do think is right up there with the best in the whole six films. Many others in this thread have stated it with eloquence, Spriggan for example.


Magpie
Immortal


Jan 31 2015, 7:11pm

Post #32 of 42 (916 views)
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also, in terms of appropriateness... [In reply to] Can't Post

... one way to measure 'appropriateness' is to think, 'What would Tolkien write'.

One of the things that resonate most deeply with me in Tolkien's writing is his use of humor in dark situations. And it resonates because it feels so real. Humor in times that might seem inappropriate serves many purposes. And like you say, there are different sorts of humor and different sorts of intent.

Tolkien's humor, and this scene in the movie, isn't a joke made to distract. It isn't meant to be disrespectful at a solemn time. And our laughing at (or smiling at or just finding amusing) the humor presented to us in these dark situations isn't a disrespectful sort of laugh.

I could write reams about this because I've thought about it a lot. But I think it's something I understood so much better at 50 than I did at 15 and so perhaps we just all have to find our way through this conundrum. A few of us have been talking (in Off Topic) about how life kicks us hard at times. But finding humor or light or light heartedness is essential to dealing with those kicks.


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Glorfindela
Valinor


Jan 31 2015, 8:04pm

Post #33 of 42 (884 views)
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Absolutely, Magpie – and Spriggan and Dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually smiled each time I saw this scene – but sadly – and no one laughed out loud in any of my viewings of the film, despite the fact that they were crowded with people of all ages. Perhaps it depends on the culture you come from (how demonstrative it is), and/or whether you have experienced death among those close to you, to appreciate such a scene?

I think it is lovely – so understated and moving. Both actors do brilliantly in it. It, like many other scenes, also reminds me what PJ is capable of in directing such subtle scenes.

Very well done.


dubulous
Rohan

Jan 31 2015, 9:51pm

Post #34 of 42 (874 views)
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One of my favourite scenes of the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's a great moment between Bilbo and Gandalf, and shows in some situations there just aren't any words that can or need to be said.


Farficom
Rivendell


Jan 31 2015, 11:26pm

Post #35 of 42 (877 views)
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"This happened every time I watched it (5 times)" [In reply to] Can't Post

When I saw the movie the one guy sitting closest to me (across the isle) kind of giggled, and then lifted his glasses... and wiped a tear away. Then everyone sat there silently while listening to Billy's song at the end which was equally great. I thought it was a fitting end even without Bilbo handing him the tobacco jar. :)


(This post was edited by Farficom on Jan 31 2015, 11:27pm)


Farficom
Rivendell


Jan 31 2015, 11:33pm

Post #36 of 42 (849 views)
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Thag you. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thag you very buch. I was going through my pics which I have a ton of, and realized it was in there. I think it came from a magazine of some sort... and they deserve all the credit. I guess you could call me a burglar of sorts, hehehe.


Ilmatar
Rohan


Feb 1 2015, 9:53pm

Post #37 of 42 (799 views)
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agree re: different kinds of laughter [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Sometimes laughter comes from a place of sympathy, or empathy, or discomfort, or confusion, or a whole range of emotions that can come and go during times of difficulty and sorrow.


I saw the film four times, and every time the audience was at first silent as a stone, then as the pipe cleaning continued, there were some gentle chuckles here and there.
I have lost some very dear loved ones. And I was smiling through tears.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 2 2015, 3:43am

Post #38 of 42 (783 views)
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at first [In reply to] Can't Post

I was like... ?????????????

then I began to appreciate the subtlety that so many of you have mentioned.

Indeed, screaming and rending and wailing would have been over the top and not appropriate to the depth of the whole tale.

Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mưl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...





Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 2 2015, 6:45am

Post #39 of 42 (801 views)
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An embrace without the embrace. [In reply to] Can't Post

Consolation comes in many forms and Gandalf is desperately trying to refocus Bilbo and bring him out of his torpor. There is something else something unique to Gandalf of all the wise. A sense almost of guilt and an overwhelming sense of responsibility for drawing Bilbo and then Frodo into their journeys which he can only reconcile by there taking ship to Aman. Bilbo and Frodo are the obverse of Gandalf they have been drawn in to the great story almost unknowingly Gandalf on the other hand knew what he would letting himself in for that is why he takes solace from their innocent courage that he refers to Galdariel about at Rivendell.

Stunning actually it starts a phase up to the wordless scene in Bag End with Martin of extra ordinary film making.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 2 2015, 6:47am)


Miss-Merriweather
Bree

Feb 2 2015, 11:56am

Post #40 of 42 (757 views)
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Responsibility [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... an overwhelming sense of responsibility for drawing Bilbo and then Frodo into their journeys...


Although, at least during BOFA, Gandalf's sense of responsibility towards the Dwarves for having urged them to go on this quest fits into a nutshell.
Unsure


mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien

Feb 2 2015, 5:46pm

Post #41 of 42 (725 views)
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It is fantastic [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen the movie 83 times and the first 64 times it gave me tears.. that later went away a bit.
but it is so emotional.. the way he tries to light his pipe and he can not.



In Reply To
What did people think of this scene? I will confess that I, among others, was initially annoyed that Gandalf would think of smoking given everything that had just happened, particularly given his own absence from Ravenhill at the time...but having seen it subsequently I realized that it is one of his most tender moments across the course of the six films. I suppose even a wizard as wise as Gandy understands that sometimes words cannot offer comfort, hence he tries to bring a smile to Bilbo's face with his silly antics-it reminds me of his moment with Pippin in RotK: "There never was much hope-just a fool's hope!"

Really curious to know how people felt about this moment...



Rythia
Registered User

Feb 5 2015, 9:06pm

Post #42 of 42 (676 views)
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Great scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the scene; any other reaction by Gandalf would have seemed out of character. It's grounded and realistic, even with the touch of humor (and even that is realistic at times!).

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