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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Can we agree that everyone trusting Alfrid was silly? (BOTFA SPOILERS)
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dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 26 2015, 11:28pm

Post #76 of 84 (342 views)
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I really don't think trust comes into it..... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see any sign that Bard either liked or trusted Alfrid. Why would he, given the little we've seen of their history. He wasn't surprised by anything Alfrid did. But he wasn't prepared to let the survivors lynch Alfrid either and, having saved him, was simply telling him to pull his weight.


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 27 2015, 12:29am

Post #77 of 84 (339 views)
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So when he says to Alfred [In reply to] Can't Post

"See that you return", and Alfred says "I'll get them to safety sire", do you think that Bard is simply cool with letting Alfred go along with the kids and then come back for no reason? It just seems like a total waste of time when Bard needs every man he can get to fight. He just put a sword in Alfred's hands and told him those exact words. He must believe Alfred is actually helping his children, or else he wouldn't let him go. To me that translates to trusting that Alfred is going to look after his kids.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 2:15am

Post #78 of 84 (331 views)
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Thanks for your reply [In reply to] Can't Post

Alfrid doesn't deserve a second chance, but he's not being given one because of his merits - he's being given a chance for repentance in spite of his faults. I don't see the "so much" influence over events given to Alfrid that you seem to. What turns out differently because of him?

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Just on the "so much" I was speaking dramatically by the film makers not the plot lines sorry that was not clear.

You ask what turns out differently because of him NOTHING and therefore he is texture rather than key to the story telling. That is indeed my whole point about extending his storyline beyond his being drowned by The Master immediately after showing appalling behaviour toward another.

If they had retained Stephen Fry's scenes the matter would have ended by the Lake with the Master showing his endless capacity for thinking on his feet politically. In the EE of BOFA he could be seen as always trying to regain the upper hand exploit the absence of Bard by attempting to take the Gold and in some way (accidental drowning) show the ridiculousness of the man.

Indeed I recall they filmed an ending with SF which would have fitted neatly into an EE left the TE buzzing and with tons of forward momentum rather than ask Ryan, who did a fantastic job in the Lake town work, to constantly repeat the same tropes over and over again.

Just one final thought people often defend these kind of choices by the film makers on the basis they did in isolation work. I found Alfrid tiresome and irritating after really enjoying DOS but there was one occasion I did enjoy the facetious Alfrid and that was his opening remarks to Gandalf because we know whom Gandalf is that worked beautifully and Sir Ian rose to the challenge. However just because it works it does mean to me it makes sense to invest time in a textual character of the Laketown arc when so many other far more important things could have been included which relate to the plot. Cue list of many unresolved plot endings.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jan 27 2015, 2:19am)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 3:45am

Post #79 of 84 (316 views)
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And to the more heroic Laketowners [In reply to] Can't Post

who really help, or those with a good heart who do take care of others.
Alfrid is a constant reminder of the kind of reactions and behaviour 'ordinary humanity' would still be having, instead of rising above their egoism thanks to the demanding circumstances.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 27 2015, 8:15am

Post #80 of 84 (311 views)
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Nt sure how I can put this much more clearly.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see any sign that Bard likes or trusts Alfrid. Not in his demeanour, not in his tone of voice, not in anything.

As for 'being cool about it'; come on..... The survivors of Laketown are about to be wiped out by orcs and all that stands between them and death is their willingness to fight and Bard's ability to organise them. Sure, he needs every MAN - and able bodied woman - to fight. But this is Alfrid and Bard knows he won't be much of a fighter - he's just giving him something he CAN do. It's a crisis - he needs everyone to do something. Seems to me Bard chose well: it was more likely that Alfrid would shepherd the women and children to safety and stay with them himself than that he would join in the fight.

Besides which, it's not as if the young Bards are little children who can't manage on their own. Bain has already shown himself very courageous; Sigrid is older than he is and looks perfectly capable of looking after her sister and even fighting if she has to and even Tilda managed to throw things at the hunting orcs.


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 27 2015, 2:54pm

Post #81 of 84 (280 views)
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That's ok, I get what you're saying [In reply to] Can't Post

But I disagree with it. Giving Alfrid mundane tasks as a form of light punishment is one thing, but personally I would be leery of him have anything to do with my children. We see repeatedly examples of Alfrid doing whatever it takes to advance his own position/safety, including hurting people. That's just me though!


CaptainObvious
Rivendell

Jan 27 2015, 9:57pm

Post #82 of 84 (261 views)
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Huh [In reply to] Can't Post

I find your answer incomprehensible. As well as silly in it's own right.


CaptainObvious
Rivendell

Jan 27 2015, 9:58pm

Post #83 of 84 (272 views)
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The question wasn't if you liked Alfrid. [In reply to] Can't Post

The question was did you find it odd that characters would trust him with REALLY important tasks, when Alfrid had only proved that he was despicable to the extent that the town was read to hang him?


Lindarielwen
Bree


Jan 29 2015, 2:19pm

Post #84 of 84 (251 views)
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Yup! [In reply to] Can't Post

How could ANYONE trust Alfrid?????

~*If I consistently reach out to people, to form relationships, to put persons above things, I will be named ‘beloved,’ and my heart and my life will expand to encompass sorrow with beauty, joy more than pleasure, faith, hope, and above all, love.*~

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