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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 22 2015, 4:33pm
Post #26 of 39
(360 views)
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And I don't want to tread on your enjoyment of the film. I do not get the sense that you have or want to share your criticisms of the films if you have any, which is totally fine. To each his own. But I believe every single person on this board (almost everyone?) has a personal stake in this, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time here. Obviously there are more constructive ways to voice criticisms than others, but I think everyone is entitled to share their opinion for the better or worse.
In contrast to your own experience with disliking Fellowship and eventually coming around, I had the exact opposite. And clearly we are both fans of Tolkien. I find that fascinating.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 22 2015, 4:36pm
Post #27 of 39
(346 views)
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Oh I know. Just joking around.
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I guess this thread has poked a few buttons. And while I admit I like to do that from time to time (in a positive sense) that's not what I intended the thread to be about. I can see how it might come off that way.
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Elessar
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 4:46pm
Post #28 of 39
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didn't I do want to let you know that. I actually want to sit down and respond because I think you had some fun points. I have shared my issues but I don't concentrate on them to be honest.
I've never had an issue with Fellowship. I think you have me mixed up with someone else there.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 22 2015, 5:00pm
Post #30 of 39
(334 views)
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Sorry. That was a response to dormouse.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 22 2015, 5:09pm
Post #31 of 39
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It isn't that I don't have criticisms - say rather that I don't feel comfortable sharing them in the atmosphere that has built up on the board especially since BotFA came out. In the context of a group of people who broadly enjoyed the films with reservations - or even with some mised in who didn't enjoy them but could be rational and courteous about it - I'd happily discuss them. But push me into a corner and it will always be the pro-film corner. The enjoyment the films give me far outweighs the criticisms.
Tolkien fan? Yes - you thought I wasn't? I've been re-reading the books for over 40 years now, and though my heart is really in the Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit was my first visit to Middle Earth and the Elvenking my first elf, so it holds a special place. I think for me the most exciting thing about the films - apart from the artwork and the whole visualisation of the stories - is the chance to engage with someone else's interpretation. I don't always agree with it, but it takes me to unexpected places and I've found it challenging and enriching, even if it was something I didn't particularly like. But that's just me.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 22 2015, 5:19pm
Post #32 of 39
(332 views)
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I never thought one way or another if you were a Tolkien fan, but I assumed as much!
I have a lot of appreciation for both trilogies, but for whatever reason in my mind and heart I must interface with them differently. My experience with the two trilogies is radically different, and I have suspicions as to why but I won't go deeply into them here on this thread. I'll just say that as adaptations go, this was the big one for me in terms of expectation.
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jan 22 2015, 5:46pm
Post #34 of 39
(314 views)
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As a fellow non-notpicker, this is why I engaged with the questions on the list which touch on (to me) interesting relationships and themes of the film/book. I agree it is not fun or enjoyable (for me).
But in my experience on other fora, nitpicking has its fans. Producing a resolution to a nitpick (for example, the proposed solution above regarding the moat and the Dwarves' charge...) seems to be a process some enjoy.
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Macfeast
Rohan
Jan 22 2015, 5:47pm
Post #35 of 39
(319 views)
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I feel like such a poster at times.
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I enjoy these three films immensely, though I find myself less tempted to talk about them at times. The reason for that, however, is twofold; It is fueled just as much by seeing the behavior you describe, as it is by seeing people accused of nitpicking, of looking for faults, and the like. Being accused of actively trying to break something apart and spread negativity, of being a "hater", can be just as demoralizing and unwelcoming as being accused of being delusional for liking something, of being a "blind fanboy".
On the wider topic of nitpicking... to me, there isn't "nitpicking", as much as there is "deep analysis", analysis that might bring up negative impressions, but likewise also might bring up positive impressions. Going deeper and really analysing a movie in great depth plays a big part in how I personally consume and enjoy movies; It helps me understand movies, and it helps satisfy my interest in the practice of storytelling. However, if I am analysing a movie in greater detail, then I am analysing the movie in greater detail; I can't control what actually shows up, and how I react to it. Sometimes, this type of deeper analysis leads to "nitpicks", minor details that takes away from the experience. Sometimes, however, it leads to minor details that serves to enhance the experience. They are two sides of the same coin to me, I can't have one without the other (the ratio of the two might differ, sometimes dramatically, but I can't go into an analysis and simply "shut off" one of the two entirely). I am greatly delighted every time I, for example, spot the less emphasised dwarves doing something interesting in the background... but I might never have spotted it if I didn't engage in the same kind of in-depth analysis that might occasionally lead to "nitpicking".
When I traverse the depths, I don't know what I will find; I can only hope that I will emerge with something of interest. Whether it is negative or positive is, to me, a secondary concern. As far as this particular thread goes, I think Bishop emerged with some very interesting thoughts.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Jan 22 2015, 5:58pm)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 6:34pm
Post #36 of 39
(303 views)
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This is exactly why I have occasionally taken a break from the board.
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Because I get tired of the "constant tide" of "If you don't like this movie you should shut up." 
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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MechaGodzilla
Rivendell
Jan 22 2015, 7:12pm
Post #37 of 39
(286 views)
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I think people in both groups are guilty of this
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Both people who like the film and people who don't like it can be very aggressive in putting their views across, and can get very defensive when they see an opinion that's the opposite of their own even when that opinion is stated in a mild-mannered way. This is something I see in all fan communities I'm part of, this one is far from unique, and I think it's simply human nature to not like it when people disagree with our own strongly held beliefs.
If you really like something, if it's special to you, it's never fun to see people put it down; maybe be told your love of it is blind and biased and that you have no standards. And if you dislike something and want an outlet for your disappointment, perhaps you don't even dislike it completely but just criticize certain aspects of it, it's not fun to basically be called a hater and be told you're just looking for faults. No one's going to admit they're part of the problem, and it's hard to blame one more than the other because they often trigger each other.
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MistyMountain
Lorien
Jan 23 2015, 3:50am
Post #38 of 39
(247 views)
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another interesting observation
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On viewing number 3, it occurred to me that orc contractors must work VERY quickly and quietly for all those elves, humans, and dwarves not to notice the huge signal flags being put up right nearby on Ravenhill. No one noticed?
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Jan 23 2015, 5:16am
Post #39 of 39
(250 views)
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According to the Chronicles book there was a small force dispatched to Ravenhill to defend it but they were overrun by the Orcs. Whether this was Thranduil's men or Laketown men it doesn't say.
Here's the quote...
"Given Ravenhill's commanding position it holds great strategic value, with the potential to decide the out of the Battle of the Five Armies in the hands of whoever holds the hill. The Orc attack takes place in mid-winter and their forces are able to attack Ravenhill's defenders across the frozen tarn."
So it seems that the Orcs managed to take out whatever force was positioned there by attacking them where they least expected it.
It is likely that whoever's force was up there likely did not think that Ravenhill was in any danger.
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