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Were Thorin and Co. Weaponless?

AndHeHandedHimTheTobaccoJar
Bree


Jan 17 2015, 3:20am

Post #1 of 8 (1066 views)
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Were Thorin and Co. Weaponless? Can't Post

Not entirely (I'll get to that later), but it seems to me as though Thorin and Co. travelled to the Lonely Mountain without weapons. We only hear mention of Glamdring and Orcrist before the Battle of the Five Armies (where the dwarves must have had weapons, I believe Thorin had a battle axe?). We also are told that in Mirkwood the dwarves fight off the spiders using knives. Other than that, there is no indication of the dwarves fighting with weapons.
First off, the "Roast Mutton" sequence. None of the dwarves are mentioned as having weapons. It is said that some of the dwarves (Bifur, Bofur?) fought like mad, but there is no indication that they had weapons. Thorin leaps forward and wields a flaming branch. It seems unlikely that if he already had a weapon he would use a stick though, which leads me to believe they didn't have weapons.
Next, in the goblin tunnels, the dwarves don't really make much of a fight against the goblins. Although, you could counter that by saying even if they did have weapons (Thorin and Gandalf did) it would make sense, as they were surrounded unawares. However, when they are fleeing the tunnels, how come only Thorin and Gandalf are mentioned as fighting? Is it because Tolkien didn't feel any of the other dwarves were worth mentioning, or they didn't have any weapons?
These themes continue in the book, the dwarves don't fight the wargs in the clearing (they were outnumbered though, and very tired). After they are captured by the elves, they don't have any weapons (I believe they outright say this).
So, my guess is that the dwarves started the quest with no weapons, save small knives and daggers.
What do you guys think? Why don't they have weapons (if I am correct in assuming they don't). Is it because they are too poor to purchase weapons, and don't have the resources to forge them (I think it mentioned that they mine coal in Ered Luin, so maybe it wasn't a mineral rich chain of mountains, if that was the best they could do...)


Ithilisa
Rivendell

Jan 17 2015, 3:37am

Post #2 of 8 (911 views)
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Given the nature of dwarves, [In reply to] Can't Post

I would imagine that they did have weapons of some kind, Tolkien just did not go into enough detail and mention them. I would assume the dwarves would have had multiple weapons between them of some kind just due to who Aule created them to be (since if I recall correctly Tolkien had written at least portions of the Simarillion early on so I'm assuming he had some kind of detailed image in his head of who the dwarves are as a race). Since Balin was in Erebor when Smaug came, I can't imagine him undertaking a trip to return to the mountain without a weapon. Since Tolkien didn't give much detail about most of the dwarves, I assume this was just left out as well.

"I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road!" - Gildor


Meneldor
Valinor


Jan 17 2015, 4:25am

Post #3 of 8 (892 views)
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On the road through Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

the hungry dwarves tried to shoot game, including the white stag, with bows provided by Beorn. Aside from those (and Orcrist and their knives) I believe they were unarmed. PJ loaded them down with many more weapons than JRRT did, just like in LotR.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 17 2015, 4:44am

Post #4 of 8 (899 views)
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Well, they were already more than weighted down with... [In reply to] Can't Post

...fiddles, flutes, viols, a drum, and Thorin's beautiful golden harp. Frankly I never understood why they didn't use them again. A viol upside the head (*kabong!*) would put down the toughest goblin, and a flute rammed up a nostril would give any troll pause. (But look out for troll bogeys!)

******************************************
The tremendous landscape of Middle-earth, the psychological and moral universe of The Lord of the Rings, is built up by repetition, semi-repetition, suggestion, foreshadowing, recollection, echo, and reversal. Through it the story goes forward at its steady, human gait. There, and back again.
-Ursula K. LeGuin, Rhythmic Patterning in The Lord of the Rings


PhantomS
Rohan


Jan 18 2015, 2:58am

Post #5 of 8 (875 views)
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we shall fight them on the beaches....hold on [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin and Gandalf are the only ones mentioned fighting because they are the only ones (plus Bilbo) who have swords. The entire journey to the Lonely Mountain was not some kind of fighting expedition like the Fellowship (who were also quite lightly armed) and the Dwarves were not supposed to fight anyone at all if possible. It's only until the Battle of the Five Armies that all 13 members of the Company are fully armed.

The knives that the Dwarves use are not usually combat knives- they are meant for camping and cooking, like the Dwarves' tinderboxes. It's not unknown (Thorin 'Oakenshield' after all) for Dwarves to use sticks or tree branches. Bombur himself could be a fighting red blob on his own. There is no need to mention any specific weapons, as named weapons usually take priority in the narrative.

As to why the Dwarves are not bringing war-band weapons like heavy axes and mattocks or wearing armor, they are trying to be incognito as much as possible. A group of 13 Dwarves armed to the teeth sounds like trouble in any neighbourhood and would move really slowly. Dain's army arrived late to the Battle of Dimrill Dale specificially because they were wearing mail armor and had axes on them. They also barely make it before the Orcs and Bats make it to Erebor, despite living closer to Erebor. Gandalf meant for Thorin and Co to arrive on time and any delay would be costly.

Were the Dwarves too poor to have weapons to fight huge battles? Certainly poorer than when they had Erebor as a home, but they did have all weapons after the Battle of the East Gate, since "with great labor they stripped their dead". It's just that it doesn't suit the aim of the Company to be fully armed; Gandalf's insistence on a Burglar and not a Hero emphasizes what the Quest needs.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 18 2015, 4:54am

Post #6 of 8 (841 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

HeartLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughHeart

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 18 2015, 4:56am

Post #7 of 8 (848 views)
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interesting insights [In reply to] Can't Post

I hadn't thought of that..........

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 18 2015, 2:22pm

Post #8 of 8 (862 views)
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Light weapons [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dwarves of the Company should probably have been carrying light weapons for self-defense and hunting: Long-knives, short swords, clubs, staves, bows & arrows, slings, etc.

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