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AndHeHandedHimTheTobaccoJar
Bree
Jan 17 2015, 3:20am
Post #1 of 8
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Were Thorin and Co. Weaponless?
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Not entirely (I'll get to that later), but it seems to me as though Thorin and Co. travelled to the Lonely Mountain without weapons. We only hear mention of Glamdring and Orcrist before the Battle of the Five Armies (where the dwarves must have had weapons, I believe Thorin had a battle axe?). We also are told that in Mirkwood the dwarves fight off the spiders using knives. Other than that, there is no indication of the dwarves fighting with weapons. First off, the "Roast Mutton" sequence. None of the dwarves are mentioned as having weapons. It is said that some of the dwarves (Bifur, Bofur?) fought like mad, but there is no indication that they had weapons. Thorin leaps forward and wields a flaming branch. It seems unlikely that if he already had a weapon he would use a stick though, which leads me to believe they didn't have weapons. Next, in the goblin tunnels, the dwarves don't really make much of a fight against the goblins. Although, you could counter that by saying even if they did have weapons (Thorin and Gandalf did) it would make sense, as they were surrounded unawares. However, when they are fleeing the tunnels, how come only Thorin and Gandalf are mentioned as fighting? Is it because Tolkien didn't feel any of the other dwarves were worth mentioning, or they didn't have any weapons? These themes continue in the book, the dwarves don't fight the wargs in the clearing (they were outnumbered though, and very tired). After they are captured by the elves, they don't have any weapons (I believe they outright say this). So, my guess is that the dwarves started the quest with no weapons, save small knives and daggers. What do you guys think? Why don't they have weapons (if I am correct in assuming they don't). Is it because they are too poor to purchase weapons, and don't have the resources to forge them (I think it mentioned that they mine coal in Ered Luin, so maybe it wasn't a mineral rich chain of mountains, if that was the best they could do...)
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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Jan 17 2015, 3:37am
Post #2 of 8
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I would imagine that they did have weapons of some kind, Tolkien just did not go into enough detail and mention them. I would assume the dwarves would have had multiple weapons between them of some kind just due to who Aule created them to be (since if I recall correctly Tolkien had written at least portions of the Simarillion early on so I'm assuming he had some kind of detailed image in his head of who the dwarves are as a race). Since Balin was in Erebor when Smaug came, I can't imagine him undertaking a trip to return to the mountain without a weapon. Since Tolkien didn't give much detail about most of the dwarves, I assume this was just left out as well.
"I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road!" - Gildor
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jan 17 2015, 4:25am
Post #3 of 8
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the hungry dwarves tried to shoot game, including the white stag, with bows provided by Beorn. Aside from those (and Orcrist and their knives) I believe they were unarmed. PJ loaded them down with many more weapons than JRRT did, just like in LotR.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 17 2015, 4:44am
Post #4 of 8
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Well, they were already more than weighted down with...
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...fiddles, flutes, viols, a drum, and Thorin's beautiful golden harp. Frankly I never understood why they didn't use them again. A viol upside the head (*kabong!*) would put down the toughest goblin, and a flute rammed up a nostril would give any troll pause. (But look out for troll bogeys!)
****************************************** The tremendous landscape of Middle-earth, the psychological and moral universe of The Lord of the Rings, is built up by repetition, semi-repetition, suggestion, foreshadowing, recollection, echo, and reversal. Through it the story goes forward at its steady, human gait. There, and back again. -Ursula K. LeGuin, Rhythmic Patterning in The Lord of the Rings
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PhantomS
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 2:58am
Post #5 of 8
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we shall fight them on the beaches....hold on
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Thorin and Gandalf are the only ones mentioned fighting because they are the only ones (plus Bilbo) who have swords. The entire journey to the Lonely Mountain was not some kind of fighting expedition like the Fellowship (who were also quite lightly armed) and the Dwarves were not supposed to fight anyone at all if possible. It's only until the Battle of the Five Armies that all 13 members of the Company are fully armed. The knives that the Dwarves use are not usually combat knives- they are meant for camping and cooking, like the Dwarves' tinderboxes. It's not unknown (Thorin 'Oakenshield' after all) for Dwarves to use sticks or tree branches. Bombur himself could be a fighting red blob on his own. There is no need to mention any specific weapons, as named weapons usually take priority in the narrative. As to why the Dwarves are not bringing war-band weapons like heavy axes and mattocks or wearing armor, they are trying to be incognito as much as possible. A group of 13 Dwarves armed to the teeth sounds like trouble in any neighbourhood and would move really slowly. Dain's army arrived late to the Battle of Dimrill Dale specificially because they were wearing mail armor and had axes on them. They also barely make it before the Orcs and Bats make it to Erebor, despite living closer to Erebor. Gandalf meant for Thorin and Co to arrive on time and any delay would be costly. Were the Dwarves too poor to have weapons to fight huge battles? Certainly poorer than when they had Erebor as a home, but they did have all weapons after the Battle of the East Gate, since "with great labor they stripped their dead". It's just that it doesn't suit the aim of the Company to be fully armed; Gandalf's insistence on a Burglar and not a Hero emphasizes what the Quest needs.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 18 2015, 4:54am
Post #6 of 8
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"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 18 2015, 4:56am
Post #7 of 8
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I hadn't thought of that..........
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jan 18 2015, 2:22pm
Post #8 of 8
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The Dwarves of the Company should probably have been carrying light weapons for self-defense and hunting: Long-knives, short swords, clubs, staves, bows & arrows, slings, etc.
"The Great Scaly One protects us from alien invaders and ourselves with his fiery atomic love. It can be a tough love - the “folly of man” and all that - but Godzilla is a fair god. "Godzilla is totally accepting of all people and faiths. For it is written that liberal or conservative, Christian or Muslim or Jew, straight or gay, all people sound pretty much the identical as they are crushed beneath his mighty feet." - Tony Isabella, The First Church of Godzilla (Reform)
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