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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 29 2014, 12:03am
Post #1 of 16
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Big Movie Productions Not to be OTT to be Commercially Successful...
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You hear the argument again and again..."it makes it more exciting, flashy, effective, etc."
I do realize that these things special effects can enhance a particular scenario but give some benefit of the doubt to the regular movie goer. Leave some to the imagination as they say. Can you imagine if they went over the top with the background music during a fight and went Heavy Metal (without the lyrics), yet with it comes to ridiculous fight scenes or action moves (like Legolas pulling a stunt that even makes Jesus Christ walking on water look bad), they seem to think more is "better."
I'm not saying the entire movie is bad. In fact, I enjoyed a good deal of it (percentage wise I am not sure), like the battle rams climbing up the rocky mountain terrain, which was a nice addition.
Here's my top 5 OTT list in BOFA:
1) Legolas Jesus Christ type feat (walking over rocks)
2) That orc coming out of the icy frozen lake still alive and strong (oxygen defying stunt...wow!)
3) Though I thought this was funny ...Thandruil's beheding of several orcs hanging on his deer
4) Legolas riding the bat (the bat decides to give a free ride...lol)
5) Galadriel going sorceress of grey skull power drain and then transforming into Gothe
What are yours?
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Dec 29 2014, 1:03am
Post #2 of 16
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and I wouldn't even call it good CGI, the elves were just too identical, leaping at the same time, it just looked fake. I did like the dwarves lining up and stacking their shields, though, and I liked the CONCEPT of Thorin & Co. on the rams, even if the CGI looked less than good. I was looking forward to the battle rams from the first trailer; hopefully they'll be in the EE. I agree with you about Legolas and Azog, in fact the most amazing thing about Legolas was that he actually ran out of arrows! It never happened in any of the LoTR movies, I guess he hadn't gotten that magic quiver yet, LOL!
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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Avandel
Half-elven
Dec 29 2014, 1:08am
Post #3 of 16
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Azog doesn't bother me, some lack of logic IMO does
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We don't know enough about orc physiology - especially a mountain orc. Also Azog is "special" as orcs go, a supreme being of his kind. Just as dwarves in theory have a tougher bone structure and I would assume they use oxygen differently as well vs. human. Azog has already had an arm chopped off and Bolg has metal stuff imbedded into him, so surviving in ice water doesn't surprise me (also, I would assume time to time Sauron probably bolstered Azog with power of a kind).
1) Why is it there are no other elves with Elrond and Galdriel, you know, just hanging around someplace if nothing else. I can't believe they would just show up at DG like that, without other elves around somewhere.
2) OTT - Saruman fighting with his staff through the whole thing. Why doesn't he use his great powers? Gandalf did in DOS.
3) Logic lapse - Gandalf KNOWS how dangerous Azog is, and so on - why doesn't he head for Ravenhill to help out? Why doesn't Thranduil go after his only son at Ravenhill - guess he figures Legolas can handle an entire army....
4) I don't know about this riding a troll like a pony...but running out of arrows was a nice touch.
5) How come so much focus is on Bard's kids in Dale, when the whole place is being overrun? And nothing happens to THEM *cough* . Well, OK they are having a moment with characters we know, but still, I would have liked some moments with the unsung extras.
There's a whole thread on the Galadriel thing. Even if they wanted to go Goth with this tho, wish it didn't remind me of that horror movie (the Ring) tho, and I still don't understand it.
PS. I loved that Thranduil scene - IMO that multi-head slice was awesome and segues into an incredible Thranduil-death-whirlwind scene - beautiful. I sure hope he saves his elk 
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 29 2014, 1:31am
Post #5 of 16
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On 1. I think the question is what use would foot soldiers have been against Sauron or the Nazgul. The odd Orc left about the place didn't give Galadriel any worries and, presumably wouldn't have done for Saruman or Elrond. In a filmic sense I think there was clearly a desire to have a different sort of conflict.
When Saruman fights you can see flashes of light as his staff strikes so there is clearly some power being used (although we would surely assume that anyway, wouldn't we?)
On 3 don't we have the same issue in reverse in the book? Gandalf knows how dangerous Bolg is, yet sits on Ravenhill rather than taking him on.
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 29 2014, 3:34am
Post #6 of 16
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The fact that Gandalf already mentioned that it was undoubtedly a "trap" and that Galadriel knew about this already should have been enough for them to bring some foot soldiers (if not a small army at least). A wise person would never underestimate her enemy for one (hence, Sauron's finger got cut off by a man). Also, for Sauron not to anticipate that coming rescue is rather silly. If Gandalf does not return, surely the White Council is to follow (unless he wants to set up an image that he is to be defeated that makes sense).
The fact that the 3 of them are so important (Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond) should have been enough to have at least to 4 personal bodyguards as human shields to say the very least, and these "shields" should be quite high in the hierarcy of Elves to say the least.
GOM
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 29 2014, 8:31am
Post #7 of 16
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For me the action problems in the Hobbit werent "unrealistic" so much as dramatic
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Honestly I can't really say I had too much of a problem with the action in any of the Hobbit films in terms of it being unrealistic as unlike LOTR your dealing with a story that's innately larger than life to a much greater degree.
The issue I did have with the action at various points in these films is that it simply went on for too long without the drama to sustain it. I'm thinking stuff like Goblin Town, the Barrel escape and some of Legolases plus the lake owners orc killing during the battle. Fine have extended action scenes with Smaug or Azog, fine make them a bit cartoonish to fit in with the tone BUT those scene have been built up dramatically. Do the same thing with random orcs being chopped up with little sense of threat and it just becomes dull.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Dec 29 2014, 8:33am)
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 29 2014, 8:35am
Post #8 of 16
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...the minor battles did go on a bit.
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Dec 29 2014, 8:37am
Post #9 of 16
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As soon as you have Elves, or Wizards, you're bound
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to have what seems OTT compared to normal human capacities. Nothing to do with Jesus-Christ and his miracles or everything to do with him too, for in him too it was the expression of powers that become natural once your inner divine nature opens up and starts manifesting itself.
In the Elves too actually, it is also the inner divine nature which is still unburied and so is able to manifest itself to a certain extent. The same with the Wizards, who are actually Maiar in disguise. I feel in these Tolkien movies OTT scenes are just to be EXPECTED, and ENJOYED for what they are: expressions of the supra-normal capacities of some of the beings in Middle-earth. Even Dwarves are special in their own way too,,, and Hobbits, with their very special feet!!!
If not in M-e films, then where would you accept to have OTT moments?!? It's precisely part of what is DIFFERENT in M-e, I would say.
I personally relish all such moments...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 29 2014, 8:39am
Post #10 of 16
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"How come so much focus is on Bard's kids in Dale"...
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...because it is a children's film (and it is a children's film trope to have children in the action.
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 29 2014, 10:35am
Post #11 of 16
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I will expect to see OTT moments
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on comedy films like Scary Movie 1-4. Indeed, in many instances, especially when Legolas starts super mario routine on the rocks, so many laughed at that part (and it wasn't a complimentary laugh).
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Dec 29 2014, 11:11am
Post #12 of 16
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Luckily for me I don't know about 'super mario routine'
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so it doesn't affect my viewing of these films and their content.
Same for 'The Ring', btw: I haven't seen that film, so it isn't a reference against which I find myself comparing Galadriel in her dark transformation.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Dec 29 2014, 11:12am)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 29 2014, 1:38pm
Post #13 of 16
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Reminded me of the battle scene in The Avengers, when Black Widow decides she needs a lift to Stark Tower and hitches a ride on a passing enemy flyer. Is this a new device to be used in action movies?
It baffles me that Galadriel went nuclear *again* when so many people didn't like that specific CGI in FOTR. Why not do something flashy and magical that would look different? It was a different context, anyway. It reminds me of George Lucas stubbornly sticking to Jar Jar Binks when so many movie fans didn't like the latter.
What I thought was way cool was when Galadriel first gets on the scene and is confronted by a guard and there's a flash, and they're out of her way. That made her seem really powerful, like she'd brushed aside a little fly, and it wasn't center stage. Sometimes being subtle can be more impressive than being in your face.
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 29 2014, 9:53pm
Post #14 of 16
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'when so many people didn't like that specific CGI in FOTR'...
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...this is a big statement when more than 100m people have seen each of these films.
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 29 2014, 11:15pm
Post #15 of 16
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but I don't hear many glowing reviews regarding that Nuclear part either...lol...so right now there are more not for so the nuclear Galadriel than the Nuclear Noldor as far as the forums I have read...the rest of the 100 million or so...we don't really know their opinion either way...lol
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 29 2014, 11:21pm
Post #16 of 16
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Reminded me of the battle scene in The Avengers, when Black Widow decides she needs a lift to Stark Tower and hitches a ride on a passing enemy flyer. Is this a new device to be used in action movies?
...Yes, and the pilot may have not known she is hitching a ride...but in this case, I guess the flying bat did not notice Legolas, and just hoped at some point in time he will let go. Instead, he allowed himself to be stirred like an obedient horse..lol
It baffles me that Galadriel went nuclear *again* when so many people didn't like that specific CGI in FOTR. Why not do something flashy and magical that would look different? It was a different context, anyway. It reminds me of George Lucas stubbornly sticking to Jar Jar Binks when so many movie fans didn't like the latter.
.. Maybe.PJ assumes many movie goers are not that sophisticated enough to appreciate subtle effects with good acting...lol
What I thought was way cool was when Galadriel first gets on the scene and is confronted by a guard and there's a flash, and they're out of her way. That made her seem really powerful, like she'd brushed aside a little fly, and it wasn't center stage. Sometimes being subtle can be more impressive than being in your face.
...I loved this part, or there could have been more orcs guarding Gandalf (he is still an Istari), and she could have put them all to sleep with lore. I would have also have preferred she wielded the daggers of the Noldorin against the Nazgul, fighting along Elrond and Saruman, and when she notices that they tend to reappear after being "killed," she brings out the Phial and THAT drives them out of the fighting arena and makes them appear beneath Sauron, and then she uses more lore, making the Phial glow brighter and brighter, while remaining fierce (and during that time Sauron tries to tempt her with the words that she used in the LOTR)..
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