|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 26 2014, 11:37pm
Post #26 of 40
(1359 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't think Galadriel needed to Nenya to destroy Dol Guldur
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Tolkien said when the One Ring was destroyed, all the other rings lose their power. So I really think it had zero role in the destruction of Dol Guldur. Let's not forget that Galadriel had the been taught by the Valar many things, and also had direct instruction from a powerful Maiar, who had no restrictions on the use of her power while in ME.
|
|
|
Tintallë
Gondor
Dec 27 2014, 1:14am
Post #27 of 40
(1333 views)
Shortcut
|
|
She says it after Frodo has looked in Galadriel's mirror
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
and, horrified at the scenes of the Shire's destruction, has offered her the ring. She says "In place of a dark lord you would have a QUEEN," etc., and right after "All shall love me and despair" she she shrinks back into her usual appearance and says (with a certain amount of self-revelation and obvious relief) "I pass the test! I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 27 2014, 1:18am
Post #28 of 40
(1333 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Sorry I thought you were talking about
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Sauron suspecting Nenya's location, or am I getting confused?
|
|
|
Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 27 2014, 2:47am
Post #30 of 40
(1324 views)
Shortcut
|
|
They fade, not wink out in a snap.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Interestingly, "Vilya, the Ring of Air, Blue Ring, the Dominant Ring, or Ring of Sapphire is the greatest of the Three Rings." So Elrond, had the "master" ring of the three and may have also allowed Rivendell and it environs to flourish as Lothlorien.
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Rings_of_Power
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 27 2014, 2:54am)
|
|
|
Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 27 2014, 5:21am
Post #32 of 40
(1323 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Remember, Gandalf also was a poor weak form after his encounter so that is not totally
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
fair. It simply, to me, shows the great effort of the duel.
Tauriel, was showing grief...as was Thranduil....plus, it was the ending scene for her and Thranduil shortly after. The movie was ending. Galadriel shows her strength in LOTR as well.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 27 2014, 5:24am)
|
|
|
Nerven
Rivendell
Dec 27 2014, 11:00am
Post #33 of 40
(1276 views)
Shortcut
|
But in another source, a more actual, Nenya was called the "chief "ring. Apparently Tolkien grew more and more fond of Galadriel so that he made made her ring the greatest/chief.
|
|
|
Nerven
Rivendell
Dec 27 2014, 11:15am
Post #34 of 40
(1292 views)
Shortcut
|
Wow, that is a hard judgemend, at least for Galadriel, not intelligent or brave, dunno, I find it very brave traveling alone to DG, not knowing what to expect and then facing Sauron, when Gandalf offered her to come with him. I don´t know if I agree with it. In the book she established the WC and especially in the movies you kinda see her leading the meeting, if I had no idea I would think she is the boss and not Saruman, when she interupts him for example and giving word to Gandalf.
Yes, she was there for Gandalf when the others were fighting, should she just have Gandalf left in the corner, ignoring his need, that would have been cruel, one has to be there for the injured.
And her collapsing I also can understand. It´s not that she jsut fought against some random orc, but Sauron himself, after healing Gandalf and enduring the place which draws on her energy as well. I think the males wouldn´t have fared any differently.
I don´tlike how PJ portayed Galadriel in that particular scene, but it wasn´t everyting so terrible. I liked that she was there for Gandalf, which is much more important than Sauron in that moment and when he was in safety, she had time for Sauron.
Galadriel does not arm herself for war, nor does she fight in any traditional sense. Apparently she was so sure of herself that she doesn´t think it neccessary to wear armor.
Why should she fight in traditional sense, she is no Tauriel, she is a royal Noldor women, and there are no sources that they ever fight with sword, except in extreme need, she has another methods, much more effective than a sword
(This post was edited by Nerven on Dec 27 2014, 11:26am)
|
|
|
arithmancer
Grey Havens
Dec 27 2014, 5:12pm
Post #35 of 40
(1264 views)
Shortcut
|
And they even show this. She is attacked by an Orc early in the scene, the one that was planning to kill Gandalf. She has no difficulty dealing with him despite her lack of traditional armament.
In terms of her leadership/or lack thereof) of the White Council - it is also she who suggests to Gandalf that he investigate the High Fells, and he follows her suggestion to discover what is happening. He reports back to her (through Radagast) in DoS.
|
|
|
Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Dec 27 2014, 5:31pm
Post #36 of 40
(1292 views)
Shortcut
|
|
What she does is parallel to Gandalf's actions in DOS
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
when fighting Sauron. Neither is wearing armor. (Why this should matter, when one is fighting a magical being, I can't imagine. Putting on some metal stuff and grabbing a sword doesn't make you "strong.") Both of them fail to defeat him--except Gandalf collapses, gets slammed against a wall, and put in a cage, while Galadriel leads the way into Dol Guldur and banishes Sauron from Dol Guldur forever and collapses only from fatigue after fighting one of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth.
I can't imagine what else she needs to do to be seen as strong--unless by "strong" you mean "male."
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
|
|
|
Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 28 2014, 2:53am
Post #37 of 40
(1249 views)
Shortcut
|
|
But we were trained to see Elrond as a healer.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
He healed Frodo in FotR. It would have made more sense for him to be healing Gandalf, though he would have done so with a different style, I assume. To be sure, Elrond looked splendid in his armor & sword, but I know Galadriel would have, as well.
No, they were working the sexist cliches: female as tender healer, rising for a moment like a mother bear protecting her cubs but then collapsing in a faint, while the men do the warrior stuff.
|
|
|
delius82
Rivendell
Dec 28 2014, 4:49am
Post #38 of 40
(1238 views)
Shortcut
|
...with Riven Delve.
|
|
|
patrickk
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 7:32am
Post #39 of 40
(1229 views)
Shortcut
|
...the same applies for Gandalf except oops (for the sexist cliche) he is a bloke!!!
|
|
|
Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 11:51pm
Post #40 of 40
(1222 views)
Shortcut
|
|
At last, someone's mentions the gender bias here...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
As always, your posts are eloquently argued.
They really had a chance to not only showcase a Noldor in action here, both in physical strength and wisdom, but failed miserably in my opinion.
...Radagast could have healed Gandalf as he took him away
...Galadriel could have used the daggers of the Noldorin that she gave to Merry and Pippin and showed the athletic side of the Noldor; how they differ from the regular Elves (the fact that is Galadriel, which is amongst the cream and the crop of the Noldor is a bonus); she could have used the Elven Cloak to enter Dol Guldur
...She could have used lore against Sauron or the Nine, and the Phial along with it (in my opinion, Arwen's raising the river, though she was not the original source of that power, was more effective and cinematic)
Had Gandalf been shown like this people wouldn't be as accepting as easily.
|
|
|
|
|
