|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 25 2014, 5:28pm
Post #1 of 16
(1828 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Two questions about the lovely Thranduil
|
Can't Post
|
|
1. Why was the significance of the white jewels to Thranduil never explained? It wouldn't have taken much to explain them in AUJ, but would have added an additional dimension to his character – rather than viewers seeing him as a purely greedy antagonist.
2. Why was there a question mark over Thranduil's wife loving her son? There's never any talk of this, yet for no good reason that I can discern, Legolas is suddenly told that his mother loved him at the end of BoFA.
To be honest I would much prefer explanations for things like this than any number of mindless slaughter, leaping/flying around or gross scenes.
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 25 2014, 6:29pm
Post #4 of 16
(1383 views)
Shortcut
|
1. I'm as puzzled as you are.
2. There wasn't. Thranduil's line doesn't so much serve the purpose of confirming the fact that Legolas' mother loved him, but marks the first sign of a change in Thranduil's mindset. Legolas tells Tauriel that his father never speaks of his mother while they're in Gundabad and yet he does so when saying farewell to his son - it's the first crack in the cocoon he's been shielding himself in for so long. Plus, telling Legolas that his mother loved him is, imo, also a way of letting his son know that he loves him.
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Dec 25 2014, 6:41pm)
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 25 2014, 7:21pm
Post #6 of 16
(1232 views)
Shortcut
|
The bit about the mother is just too vague and introduced too suddenly. Viewers should not have to guess as to what the meaning of this scene is.
As for the white gems, they should have been explained directly in a few short words. It would have prevented us from seeing Thranduil as purely motivated by greed, and shown him as a more complex character than indicated.
It's simply not good enough to leave this sort of thing to the EE – if indeed that is where it will go. There was plenty of excess in these films that could have been cut to add moments of real meaning…
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Dec 25 2014, 7:26pm)
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 25 2014, 7:34pm
Post #7 of 16
(1199 views)
Shortcut
|
Thranduil's character certainly hasn't benefited from these choices. At least not in the eyes of a wider audience.
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Dec 25 2014, 7:41pm)
|
|
|
Lúthien125
Registered User
Dec 25 2014, 9:09pm
Post #8 of 16
(1169 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Is this subject explored in the books ?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Or was it left unexplained by Tolkien ?
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 25 2014, 9:11pm
Post #9 of 16
(1155 views)
Shortcut
|
Tolkien makes no mention of Thranduil's wife/Legolas' mother.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 25 2014, 11:39pm
Post #10 of 16
(1123 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't mind the white gems business
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
…even it it is non-canon. However, if introducing something like this, it should at least be explained in the film (even briefly). I'm very curious as to why Thranduil coveted the white gems in particular. I know there has been speculation as to why, but it is simply not good enough to leave it to viewers to fabricate their own explanations.
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 26 2014, 1:52am
Post #11 of 16
(1232 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Thranduil apparently hadn't talked to Legolas about his mother before
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
2. Why was there a question mark over Thranduil's wife loving her son? There's never any talk of this, yet for no good reason that I can discern, Legolas is suddenly told that his mother loved him at the end of BoFA.
I've only see BotFA once so I can't remember if it was actually stated in the movie, but apparently the idea from the filmmakers is that Thranduil was hurt so deeply by his wife's death that he's never talked about her with Legolas. She died trying to save her son and the memory is just too painful for Thranduil. IMO, when Thranduil told Legolas that his mother loved him more than anything, the implication was not only that his mother died to save him, but also was Thranduil saying in the only way he could that he also loves Legolas. Enough to re-open the lines of communication.
A quote from Philippa Boyens:
"She [Tauriel] says ”There’s no love in you”. She’s actually utterly wrong. He [Thranduil] has loved so deeply that he can’t go near it anymore. He can’t approach it, he can’t touch it, it is not to be talked about. So when he finally says to Legolas “Your mother loved you, more than anything, more than life”, that’s what we said to the actor in that moment is that she died saving her child." ( source) 
"I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play
And mild and sweet their songs repeat
Of peace on earth, good will to men.
But in despair I bowed my head
There is no peace on earth, I said
For hate is strong and mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good will to men.
Then rang the bells more loud and deep,
God is not dead, nor doth He sleep
The wrong shall fail, the right prevail
With peace on earth, good will to men."
~Casting Crowns "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day"
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Dec 26 2014, 2:20am
Post #12 of 16
(1101 views)
Shortcut
|
For me, in DOS we have a scarred Thranduil angrily saying "I have faced the great serpents of the North"
Mount Gundabad/Angmar is in the North, so "my mother died there" to me was to tie back to some sort of conflict that Thranduil was part of, and like the scar that is usually concealed, Thranduil usually doesn't speak of it and conceals the memory - assume it is too painful as is the loss of his wife, "no grave, no memory". Yet by never speaking of it, in a way Legolas has been denied knowing at least some of his mother's history and and memory of her, denied HER, in a sense.
Especially since elves revere memory "precious and pure".
To me the interest in the white gems is even more cryptic, e.g. from the movies alone is it because they are of "pure starlight?" We see that a necklace has been crafted of some of them, at least, which to me looks definitely like a woman's necklace.
Altogether I guess we can INTERPOLATE, if we squint and try hard , that if a necklace was crafted for a female and Thranduil lost his wife, the reason he is so determined to reclaim the gems is in memory of her. And finally lifting the veil with Legolas was a gift of sorts as well as reaching out to his son - e.g. it was showing that Thranduil had had a great change of heart.
That's a lot of interpolation tho, especially for a general audience, e.g. I have family going to BOFA over the weekend, and when I asked did they remember DOS as there wasn't going to be any introduction in BOFA, they said yes (and told me not to tell them anything re spoilers ). But I think they and other audience members might like a few more explanations.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 26 2014, 4:59am
Post #13 of 16
(1023 views)
Shortcut
|
I think it is leaving too much for the audience to guess what all this is about. It does need spelling out (few people seeing the film would have listened to anything Boyens has said). I hope things like this will be explained in the EE – in favour of more pointless 'battle' moments, grossness and general silliness.
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 26 2014, 10:30am
Post #14 of 16
(1028 views)
Shortcut
|
Agreed, once again.
|
|
|
Holly Hobbit
Bree
Dec 26 2014, 4:50pm
Post #16 of 16
(1027 views)
Shortcut
|
|
So the final EE of Middle-earth is said to be set for release next summer?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Not questioning what you're saying... I just hadn't heard this before. Hopefully it's true because I don't want to wait a full year to see scenes of the funeral and Thranduil receiving his wife's necklace!
|
|
|
|
|
) 
