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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 24 2014, 5:33pm
Post #1 of 14
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A slight shake of the head
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During Fili's death scene he and Thorin exchange a look and Thorin gives a slight shake of his head. Some have suggested this is Thorin telling Fili to "be brave". While I think this is a good analysis of this moment, I have a different take on it. Right before Thorin shakes his head, Fili tells them to "Go!" I think Thorin knows Fili is as brave as he can be in this moment, and the shake of the head is Thorin saying "No, I'm not going to walk away. I'm not going to leave to face this fate on your own." If this is the case, you could say Thorin is making up for what happened in Lake-town. (Whether he knows it or not). He left one nephew behind and he was not about do it again.
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Angharad73
Rohan
Dec 24 2014, 6:00pm
Post #2 of 14
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...why don't you...
I also took that little head shake to mean that Thorin is not going to run away. Maybe it's a mix of both that and him telling Fili to be brave. There is so much communication in that short little moment. It's all in the eyes... I have to watch it again, on DVD most likely, to really make up my mind. It's quite an amazing scene, really. Not sure if I can watch it emotionlessly enough to analyse it objectively.
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Kim
Valinor
Dec 24 2014, 6:31pm
Post #3 of 14
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I like both of these interpretations
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although when I saw it, I interpreted it as a denial that Fili was in the hands of the enemy and about to be killed. Perhaps it's all of them at once?
#OneLastTime
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 24 2014, 6:32pm
Post #4 of 14
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but yes, for such a brief scene there is quite a bit happening. (The "I belong with my brother" scene in DOS is another example of this). Another moment that grabs me is the look on Thorin's face when he first sees Azog has Fili. It's not the look of a leader/ king seeing one of his men in peril. It's the look of an uncle - a father - seeing his child in the hands of a monster. It's so brief, but it's there. Okay, I'm going to stop before I'm a so big mess.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 24 2014, 6:37pm
Post #5 of 14
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I would guess at some point during the whole ordeal Thorin's got to be thinking to himself, "How did this happen?" "I should've never brought Fili and Kili here." "Why didn't I kill that foul beast when I had the chance?"
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Angharad73
Rohan
Dec 24 2014, 6:43pm
Post #6 of 14
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Thorin isn't a king or a leader at that moment. He is an uncle, who sees his nephew in the hands of his archenemy, and he knows exactly how it will end. He is completely powerless to stop it happening. All he can do is watch because it would be even worse to turn away, both for Fili, who would die alone then, and for Thorin, who would feel like a coward. And that is all conveyed in a split-second look...
OK, I better stop here now and go back to cooking my boeuf bourgignon... Fili's death still isn't something I can contemplate without getting emotional...
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Kim
Valinor
Dec 24 2014, 6:54pm
Post #7 of 14
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Yeah, there's a lot running through his mind
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and only a short while ago he'd been welcoming his sister's sons to the reclaimed kingdom of Erebor.
#OneLastTime
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 24 2014, 10:02pm
Post #8 of 14
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Since Fili says "go"! that Thorin was shaking his head to say "no". He's not going to retreat and he's going to stand with Fili in that moment.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 24 2014, 10:37pm
Post #9 of 14
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No, we are not leaving.
No, I can't believe this is happening to you.
No, I won't let it happen to Kili if I can possibly save him.
It's an eloquent shake.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 24 2014, 11:34pm
Post #10 of 14
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beautifully said!
I'll go reach for the hankies now.... 
Though like others above me, I agree that it was a very complex shake- "No, I'm not running. Be brave- I love you, and I'm not gonna let you face this alone."
Though Dwalin's being unable to watch is very poignant too- undoubtedly he was like an uncle to them as well, even if he was actually their cousin (he certainly gives that impression when they arrive at Bag End). You can tell that it truly horrified him to have to witness it.
Maybe when I'm not stuck in a crowded theater sitting between two men I don't know in the slightest, I will sob harder at this scene, but even though I've seen it twice, it's only misting because it's so shocking and there's so much adrenaline coursing through me at that point (I don't do well in crowds, but I am willing to overcome that for the sake of these films).
But once it's home on DVD, I guarantee you I will bawl at that scene! At least by the time Bilbo tries to show Thorin the eagles the adrenaline's worn off, and both times I ended up with tears streaming down my face for all three of those lost
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Dec 25 2014, 7:17am
Post #11 of 14
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Was starting to cry as well...
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mais heureusement l'allusion au boeurf bourguignon m'a sauvee!!!
Et m'a fait vous identifier comme: FRANCAIS(E)!!!  
Juste un petit coucou en passant, comme ca,,, De temps en temps ca fait du bien dans cette ambiance plutot americaine, ou disons anglo-saxonne! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Angharad73
Rohan
Dec 25 2014, 9:50am
Post #12 of 14
(342 views)
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...je suis Allemande mais mariee a un Francais. Desole pour les accents...
Unfortunately, my French is less than perfect, especially when writing, but I do know about French cuisine by now
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Dec 25 2014, 10:04pm
Post #13 of 14
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because I spent my morning cooking lasagne...
but yes a multilayered no. Especially no, I won't go, I won't leave you there.
I know that PJ and co will justify Fili's lack of mourners in the TE, by saying that he's mourned by family and Bilbo assisting and staying with him during his execution. Just a few glimpses but so meaningful, so poignant.
I know but they should not have left him like that, sorry, but not sorry.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 26 2014, 2:11am
Post #14 of 14
(274 views)
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I know that PJ and co will justify Fili's lack of mourners in the TE, by saying that he's mourned by family and Bilbo assisting and staying with him during his execution. Just a few glimpses but so meaningful, so poignant. I know but they should not have left him like that, sorry, but not sorry.
While his death was not as it was in the book, there many aspects of it that I liked and I'm willing to forgive those changes. However, the one thing I cannot forgive is how they left him there. It made it feel as if they - Peter and co. - were simply trying to get him out of the way. That may not have been their intent, but it felt that way.
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