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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 11:59pm
Post #26 of 31
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The texts suggest no hero at all.
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They consistently refer to a group endeavour, within which we don't know who did what.
It is very much open to the reader's imagination.
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Dec 23 2014, 12:11am
Post #27 of 31
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...one character (Saruman) is called out by name as having played a bigger role than anyone else in routing Sauron from Dol Guldur, whether it was through planning, combat, or whatever else you want to interpret it as.
That is not what we saw in the film though. What we saw in the film was Galadriel being elevated above the rest of the Council.
Anyway no offense, but I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion. Have a nice day.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 23 2014, 12:14am
Post #28 of 31
(149 views)
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Not a bigger role, just a specific one.
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The group quotes are far more numerous.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Dec 23 2014, 4:24am
Post #29 of 31
(135 views)
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Feanor never killed any Balrogs. In fact, with the exception of a factually flawed
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account in The Book of Lost Tales, which one must remember was essentially a rough draft and never revised early version of the fall of Gondolin, one written long before Tolkien's own understanding of the nature of Balrogs et al had cemented, the only Balrogs who ever fell in battle with Elves were the one who dueled Glorfindel and Gothmog himself. Even in The Book of Lost Tales, it is explicitly stated that, prior to the battle of Gondolin, no Elf had EVER defeated one of the Balrogs, though they had certainly encountered them in the great battles that preceded Gondolins fall. Feanor slew many orcs, and was surrounded by the Balrogs (no more than 7 in number by that time, as rumour has it they once surrounded Manwe and his Standard to disastrous consequence for themselves), and he managed to stay alive until Gothmog came forward and smote him, but it is not said that he even injured any of the Demons of might.
I really have no problem that Galadriel was the one who banished Sauron. We not even know for sure if Saruman banished him originally and either way, Sauron planned to flee to Mordor all along.
Galadriel is mighty, said to be "The greatest of the Noldor except Feanor MAYBE." The greatest of the Eldar ( which includes Galadriel) are said to match the Maia, Feanor killed a few of them (the balrogs) and she was "unconquerable in resistance (especially in mind and spirit)" All those factors lead me to believe that it is not farfetcherd to show her that powerful.
The only thing that was disappointing to me was how this was portayed, as if Galadriel was possessed.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Dec 23 2014, 4:33am
Post #30 of 31
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Didn't I warn you, Salmalcis?? lol She did keep passing out, so that helped to balance
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things, by at least making it clear that she wasn't some unstoppable force. My KEY complaints... I think the over-effects of look and voice made the scene a little silly in its hyperbole. I also would have liked a little more obvious force from Saruman at the repelling of Sauron... if he had stepped forward, joining her in incantation, the light from his staff flaring etc.... I also would have liked for Gandalf to return, or join in the magical effort, with Radagast, from the hill top. A true team effort in the driving out of Sauron. Give Galadriel her time to shine at the opening, but then have the whole team rally for the defeat of the Dark Lord. That would have been good and proper... but, oh well, too late now, is what it is. lol
...probably because they wanted the film to have more "feminine energy".
I'm with you erdildeniz, I think it should have been Saruman, or at least more of a group effort, instead of Galadriel being elevated above everyone else. Plus, I really don't like that they showed Galadriel succeeding where Gandalf failed. Wonder what AinurOlorin thinks of this - his worst fears about the way PJ would handle the scene pretty much came true.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Dec 25 2014, 5:09pm
Post #31 of 31
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Really couldn't tell what Saruman was doing...
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At first I thought he was shielding his face from Sauron like he was afraid, but then he seemed to have gotten knocked back a bit after Sauron took off. Whatever Saruman was doing, it's pretty clear the filmmakers wanted Galadriel to get the main credit for routing Sauron.
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