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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Dec 21 2014, 7:43am
Post #1 of 6
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Questions on the Battle for those who went with non-book readers, or who didn't know the story
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- What did your companion(s) think were the five armies?
- Did they get the sense of it being a five-sided melee or did they get that it was a 4 vs 1?
- Was it confusing to them in terms of the theatre or did they get that there were three major conflict stages: In front of Erebor, Dale, and on Ravenhill?
- Were developments believable or did they find it hard to take that it was indeed a Battle?
EG There were multiple-factions were on the side of good, and though they started out against each other, they were focused, though not necessarily united, there was just one enemy ultimately?
EG the sudden Elven participation when Dain's boys were in that formation against the first wave of Orcs? - What was their favourite Battle scene?
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy.  " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan) 
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them.  )
  Thranduil Appreciation. Threadcount: XXVIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII | XXIV | XXV | XXVI | XXVII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Dec 21 2014, 7:46am)
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Dec 21 2014, 2:07pm
Post #2 of 6
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Was a 12 year old boy who has not read "The Hobbit" but has seen the LotR films and the two previous Hobbit films.
1, 2. I am sure he did not care whether there were exactly five armies, and if yes, what they were. He had no trouble identifying whom to root for once the battle was joined.
3. Could be asked of a book reader as well. As a book reader who never cared much to understand the course of the battle in the book (though remembers enough detail to know Jackson and Co. adapted the battle to suit their needs) I found this very clear. The battle began before the gates of Erebor, with Thorin's company looking on. Azog's orcs came and battle was joined with them. Azog then ordered an attack on the ruined city of Dale, which the Men certainly had to defend, it is where their noncombatants were. Gandalf additionally explained that if the city fell, the armies in front of the gate would be surrounded. Finally, the movie showed us the second Orc army of Bolg, and had Legolas and Tauriel ride in in the middle of the battle to announce its impending arrival. In the meantime - we could see all along that Azog's command post was up high somewhere else, and when Thorin decided to lead a small team to take him out, we saw the rams they rode, ascend to this location. I found this clear enough.I could not draw one of those diagrams military history books have that I always skip...not sure of the relative locations of the three places, nor of the location where the Orc tunnels were, but certainly it seemed logical enough.
4. My companion did not comment on this, but I would bet that his answer would be (in preteen style) ...duh,Mama, ORCS! Possibly a viewer coming to the film without having seen LotR/the previous films, might have more doubts? Even there, though, it seems to me that this might become clearer to the viewer by the end. Just within the films, the manner in which Orcs deal with any of the Free Peoples, and the manner in which at least some of them deal with one another, is strongly contrasted. Thranduil aids the refugee Men of Laketown with supplies. Bard parleys with Thorin (and he and Thranduil give it a second go!) Orcs, on the other hand, don't, and slaughter the noncombatants in Dale without a second thought (wholesale slaughter of the other three, or however one wants to count them, armies, seems to be Azog's goal.)
5.This is a good question, and one I shall ask him.
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Dec 21 2014, 3:42pm
Post #3 of 6
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...my companion (same 12 yo boy) indicated two favorite moments in the battle. First, a moment I don't even recall (clearly, viewing #3 is in order) of the Men in Dale dispatching the Trolls that are attacking the city.
Second, he initially named the specific moment of the Azog/Thorin duel in which Thorin steps off the floating piece of ice they are both standing on, causing Azog to slip beneath the ice. However, upon consideration he indicated that actually, the "movies vs. real life" (his words) moment in which Azog attacks through the ice was equally great despite its (in his view) lack of realism. So really, the whole final duel.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 4:16pm
Post #4 of 6
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One claims to have read the book but I dont think so because he didn't know that Thorin,Fili and Kili died nor did he think there was a Battle of the Five armies in the book. I say he's a non reader. The other person had not read the books at all.
They liked the movie overall but were confused by the battle scenes because the Dwarf and Orc Armies were similar tone and hue in color and they weren't clear on their placement in battle. Their only gripe was they could not really tell who "won" and like another poster I think posted in another thread here, when Thorin looks out just before he dies it's hard to say who is is seeing or who won. I expect this will be remedied in the EE.
They really liked the film nonetheless and enjoyed it and thought it was entertaining. They had seen the other two and understood about the Arkenstone. They missed the siginificance of Orcrist (this too likely to be remedied in the EE when the funeral scene is shown) but did not feel that the funeral scene would have added to their viewing at all. I asked them about that.
Their favorite battle scene for both was when the Elves jump over the top of the dwarves and charge the Orcs.
Least favorite one of the people I was with was the Bats. She felt the bats really didn't "add" anything and were just there to put Legolas on top of Ravenhill .The other person I was with didn't like the attack on Dale and felt there was too much time spent on the fighting there.
I don't think either of them had a concept of five sided melee. But it didn't really matter because they enjoyed the film and got the gist of it.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Dec 21 2014, 5:33pm
Post #5 of 6
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has never read the books all the way through and he said this might be his favorite Tolkien movie (it's between this and AUJ for him I think).
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Dec 23 2014, 10:06am
Post #6 of 6
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Thanks, everyone for responding
[In reply to]
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I was waiting to have my sister's response to add to this. Her taste is pretty much like me in both books and movies, except she doesn't geekout. And she's certainly no Tolkien book reader. Anyway... she's not all that tied-up on what made up the armies either. Though she did name them: Man, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Beasts. Which was close enough. For the other questions, she's not replied yet so I'll follow-up as it happens.
I guess the inference, though the sample size is small, is that non-readers/non-fans probably don't mind the details that readers/fans get caught-up over. Par for course
Thanks again, everyone.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. )
Thranduil Appreciation. Threadcount: XXIX
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII | XXIV | XXV | XXVI | XXVII | XXVIII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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